From: Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@collabora.com>
To: Nicolas Dufresne <nicolas@ndufresne.ca>
Cc: Thierry Reding <thierry.reding@gmail.com>,
Paul Kocialkowski <paul.kocialkowski@bootlin.com>,
Linux Media Mailing List <linux-media@vger.kernel.org>,
Hans Verkuil <hverkuil-cisco@xs4all.nl>,
Tomasz Figa <tfiga@chromium.org>,
Alexandre Courbot <acourbot@chromium.org>,
Maxime Ripard <maxime.ripard@bootlin.com>,
Jernej Skrabec <jernej.skrabec@siol.net>,
Ezequiel Garcia <ezequiel@collabora.com>,
Jonas Karlman <jonas@kwiboo.se>
Subject: Re: Proposed updates and guidelines for MPEG-2, H.264 and H.265 stateless support
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 21:41:17 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190603214117.664f6ba1@collabora.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a2f6bac6596da86d597d9ac4c12b1f72b772dbe5.camel@ndufresne.ca>
On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 14:52:44 -0400
Nicolas Dufresne <nicolas@ndufresne.ca> wrote:
> > > - Dropping the DPB concept in H.264/H.265
> > >
> > > As far as I could understand, the decoded picture buffer (DPB) is a
> > > concept that only makes sense relative to a decoder implementation. The
> > > spec mentions how to manage it with the Hypothetical reference decoder
> > > (Annex C), but that's about it.
> > >
> > > What's really in the bitstream is the list of modified short-term and
> > > long-term references, which is enough for every decoder.
> > >
> > > For this reason, I strongly believe we should stop talking about DPB in
> > > the controls and just pass these lists agremented with relevant
> > > information for userspace.
> > >
> > > I think it should be up to the driver to maintain a DPB and we could
> > > have helpers for common cases. For instance, the rockchip decoder needs
> > > to keep unused entries around[2] and cedrus has the same requirement
> > > for H.264. However for cedrus/H.265, we don't need to do any book-
> > > keeping in particular and can manage with the lists from the bitstream
> > > directly.
> >
> > There was a bit of concern regarding this. Given that DPB maintenance is
> > purely a software construct, this doesn't really belong in the kernel. A
> > DPB will be the same no matter what hardware operates on the bitstream.
> > Depending on the hardware it may use the DPB differently (or maybe not
> > at all), but that's beside the point, really. This is pretty much the
> > same rationale as discussed above for meta data.
> >
> > Again, VAAPI and VDPAU don't require drivers to deal with this. Instead
> > they just get the final list of reference pictures, ready to use.
>
> I think we need a bit of clarification from Boris, as what I read here
> is a bit contradictory (or at least I am a bit confused). When I first
> read this, I understood that this was just about renaming the dpb as
> being the references list and only require the active references to be
> there.
It's really just about renaming the field, it would contain exactly the
same data.
>
> So what I'm not clear is where exactly this "active reference list"
> comes from. In VAAPI it is describe "per-frame" ....
That's my understanding as well.
>
> >
> > > - Using flags
> > >
> > > The current MPEG-2 controls have lots of u8 values that can be
> > > represented as flags. Using flags also helps with padding.
> > > It's unlikely that we'll get more than 64 flags, so using a u64 by
> > > default for that sounds fine (we definitely do want to keep some room
> > > available and I don't think using 32 bits as a default is good enough).
> > >
> > > I think H.264/HEVC per-control flags should also be moved to u64.
> >
> > There was also some concensus on this, that u64 should be good enough
> > for anything out there, though we obviously don't know what the future
> > will hold, so perhaps adding some way for possible extending this in the
> > future might be good. I guess we'll get new controls for new codecs
> > anyway, so we can punt on this until then.
> >
> > > - Clear split of controls and terminology
> > >
> > > Some codecs have explicit NAL units that are good fits to match as
> > > controls: e.g. slice header, pps, sps. I think we should stick to the
> > > bitstream element names for those.
> > >
> > > For H.264, that would suggest the following changes:
> > > - renaming v4l2_ctrl_h264_decode_param to v4l2_ctrl_h264_slice_header;
> > > - killing v4l2_ctrl_h264_decode_param and having the reference lists
> > > where they belong, which seems to be slice_header;
>
> But now here it's being described per slice. When I look at the slice
> header, I only see list of modifications and when I look at userspace,
> That list is simply built from DPB, the modifications list found in the
> slice header seems to be only used to craft the l0/l1 list.
Yes, I think there was a misunderstanding which was then clarified
(unfortunately it happened on IRC, so we don't have a trace of this
discussion). The reference list should definitely be per-frame, and the
L0/L1 slice reflists are referring to the per-frame reference list (it's
just a sub-set of the per-frame reflist re-ordered differently).
>
> There is one thing that come up though, if we enable per-frame decoding
> on top of per-slice decoder (like Cedrus), won't we force userspace to
> always compute l0/l1 even though the HW might be handling that ?
That's true, the question is, what's the cost of this extra re-ordering?
> Shall
> we instead pass the modification list and implement the non-parsing
> bits of applying the modifications in the kernel ?
I'd be fine with that option too.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-06-03 19:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-05-15 10:09 Proposed updates and guidelines for MPEG-2, H.264 and H.265 stateless support Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-15 14:42 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-15 17:42 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-15 18:54 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-15 20:59 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-16 18:24 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-16 18:45 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-17 20:43 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-18 9:50 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-18 10:04 ` Jernej Škrabec
2019-05-18 10:29 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-18 14:09 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-22 6:48 ` Tomasz Figa
2019-05-22 8:26 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-22 10:42 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-22 10:55 ` Hans Verkuil
2019-05-22 11:55 ` Thierry Reding
2019-06-07 6:11 ` Tomasz Figa
2019-06-07 6:45 ` Hans Verkuil
2019-06-07 8:23 ` Hans Verkuil
2019-05-21 10:27 ` Tomasz Figa
2019-05-21 11:44 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-21 15:09 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-21 16:07 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-22 8:08 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-22 6:01 ` Tomasz Figa
2019-05-22 18:15 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-21 15:43 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-21 16:23 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-22 6:39 ` Tomasz Figa
2019-05-22 7:29 ` Boris Brezillon
2019-05-22 8:20 ` Boris Brezillon
2019-05-22 18:18 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-22 8:32 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-22 9:29 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-05-22 11:39 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-22 18:31 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-22 18:26 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-22 10:08 ` Thierry Reding
2019-05-22 18:37 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-05-23 21:04 ` Jonas Karlman
2019-06-03 11:24 ` Thierry Reding
2019-06-03 18:52 ` Nicolas Dufresne
2019-06-03 19:41 ` Boris Brezillon [this message]
2019-06-04 8:31 ` Thierry Reding
2019-06-04 8:49 ` Boris Brezillon
2019-06-04 9:06 ` Thierry Reding
2019-06-04 9:15 ` Jonas Karlman
2019-06-04 9:28 ` Paul Kocialkowski
2019-06-04 9:38 ` Boris Brezillon
2019-06-04 10:49 ` Jonas Karlman
2019-06-04 8:50 ` Thierry Reding
2019-06-04 8:55 ` Thierry Reding
2019-06-04 9:05 ` Boris Brezillon
2019-06-04 9:09 ` Paul Kocialkowski
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