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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@cyphar.com>
Cc: Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org>,
	"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Shuah Khan <shuah@kernel.org>,
	Shuah Khan <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Eric Biederman <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@kernel.org>,
	Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.ws>,
	David Drysdale <drysdale@google.com>,
	Chanho Min <chanho.min@lge.com>, Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
	Rasmus Villemoes <linux@rasmusvillemoes.dk>,
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH v12 10/12] namei: aggressively check for nd->root escape on ".." resolution
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 15:16:49 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wgcJq21Hydh7Tx5-o8empoPp7ULDBw0Am-du_Pa+fcftQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190904214856.vnvom7h5xontvngq@yavin.dot.cyphar.com>

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 2:49 PM Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@cyphar.com> wrote:
>
> Hinting to userspace to do a retry (with -EAGAIN as you mention in your
> other mail) wouldn't be a bad thing at all, though you'd almost
> certainly get quite a few spurious -EAGAINs -- &{mount,rename}_lock are
> global for the entire machine, after all.

I'd hope that we have some future (possibly very long-term)
alternative that is not quite system-global, but yes, right now they
are.

Which is one reason I'd rather see EAGAIN in user space - yes, it
probably makes it even easier to trigger, but it also means that user
space might be able to do something about it when it does trigger.

For example, maybe user space can first just use an untrusted path
as-is, and if it gets EAGAIN or EXDEV, it may be that user space can
simplify the path (ie turn "xyz/.../abc" into just "abc".

And even if user space doesn't do anything like that, I suspect a
performance problem is going to be a whole lot easier to debug and
report when somebody ends up seeing excessive retries happening. As a
developer you'll see it in profiles or in system call traces, rather
than it resulting in very odd possible slowdowns for the kernel.

And yeah, it would probably be best to then at least delay doing
option 3 indefinitely, just to make sure user space knows about and
actually has a test-case for that EAGAIN happening.

              Linus

  reply index

Thread overview: 65+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-04 20:19 [PATCH v12 00/12] namei: openat2(2) path resolution restrictions Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 01/12] lib: introduce copy_struct_{to,from}_user helpers Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:48   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-04 21:00   ` Randy Dunlap
2019-09-05  7:32   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05  9:26     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05  9:43       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-05 10:57         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-11 10:37           ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 13:35         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 17:01         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05  8:43   ` Rasmus Villemoes
2019-09-05  9:50     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 10:45       ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05  9:09   ` Andreas Schwab
2019-09-05 10:13     ` [PATCH v12 01/12] lib: introduce copy_struct_{to, from}_user helpers Gabriel Paubert
2019-09-05 11:05   ` [PATCH v12 01/12] lib: introduce copy_struct_{to,from}_user helpers Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 11:17     ` Rasmus Villemoes
2019-09-05 11:29       ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 13:40     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 11:09   ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 11:27     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 11:40       ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 18:07   ` Al Viro
2019-09-05 18:23     ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 18:28       ` Al Viro
2019-09-05 18:35         ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 19:56         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 22:31           ` Al Viro
2019-09-06  7:00           ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-05 23:00     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-05 23:49       ` Al Viro
2019-09-06  0:09         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-06  0:14         ` Al Viro
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 02/12] clone3: switch to copy_struct_from_user() Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 03/12] sched_setattr: switch to copy_struct_{to,from}_user() Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 04/12] perf_event_open: switch to copy_struct_from_user() Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 05/12] namei: obey trailing magic-link DAC permissions Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-17 21:30   ` Jann Horn
2019-09-18 13:51     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-18 15:46       ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 06/12] procfs: switch magic-link modes to be more sane Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 07/12] open: O_EMPTYPATH: procfs-less file descriptor re-opening Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 08/12] namei: O_BENEATH-style path resolution flags Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 09/12] namei: LOOKUP_IN_ROOT: chroot-like path resolution Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 10/12] namei: aggressively check for nd->root escape on ".." resolution Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 21:09   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-04 21:35     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-04 21:36       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-04 21:48     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 22:16       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2019-09-04 22:31       ` David Howells
2019-09-04 22:38         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-04 23:29           ` Al Viro
2019-09-04 23:44             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 11/12] open: openat2(2) syscall Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 21:00   ` Randy Dunlap
2019-09-07 12:40   ` Jeff Layton
2019-09-07 16:58     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-07 17:42       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-07 17:45         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-07 18:15           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-10  6:35           ` Ingo Molnar
2019-09-08 16:24     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-04 20:19 ` [PATCH v12 12/12] selftests: add openat2(2) selftests Aleksa Sarai

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