linux-mm.kvack.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky@gmail.com>
To: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky@gmail.com>,
	Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky.work@gmail.com>,
	Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>, Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
	Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp>,
	rostedt@home.goodmis.org, Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@lge.com>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:01:53 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180123160153.GC429@tigerII.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180123104121.2ef96d81@gandalf.local.home>

On (01/23/18 10:41), Steven Rostedt wrote:
[..]
> We can have more. But if printk is causing printks, that's a major bug.
> And work queues are not going to fix it, it will just spread out the
> pain. Have it be 100 printks, it needs to be fixed if it is happening.
> And having all printks just generate more printks is not helpful. Even
> if we slow them down. They will still never end.

Dropping the messages is not the solution either. The original bug report
report was - this "locks up my kernel". That's it. That's all people asked
us to solve.

With WQ we don't lockup the kernel, because we flush printk_safe in
preemptible context. And people are very much expected to fix the
misbehaving consoles. But that should not be printk_safe problem.

> A printk causing a printk is a special case, and we need to just show
> enough to let the user know that its happening, and why printks are
> being throttled. Yes, we may lose data, but if every printk that goes
> out causes another printk, then there's going to be so much noise that
> we wont know what other things went wrong. Honestly, if someone showed
> me a report where the logs were filled with printks that caused
> printks, I'd stop right there and tell them that needs to be fixed
> before we do anything else. And if that recursion is happening because
> of another problem, I don't want to see the recursion printks. I want
> to see the printks that show what is causing the recursions.

I'll re-read this one tomorrow. Not quite following it.

> > The problem is - we flush printk_safe too soon and printing CPU ends up
> > in a lockup - it log_store()-s new messages while it's printing the pending
> 
> No, the problem is that printks are causing more printks. Yes that will
> make flushing them soon more likely to lock up the system. But that's
> not the problem. The problem is printks causing printks.

Yes. And ignoring those printk()-s by simply dropping them does not fix
the problem by any means.

> > ones. It's fine to do so when CPU is in preemptible context. Really, we
> > should not care in printk_safe as long as we don't lockup the kernel. The
> > misbehaving console must be fixed. If CPU is not in preemptible context then
> > we do lockup the kernel. Because we flush printk_safe regardless of the
> > current CPU context. If we will flush printk_safe via WQ then we automatically
> 
> And if we can throttle recursive printks, then we should be able to
> stop that from happening.

pintk_safe was designed to be recursive. It was never designed to be
used to troubleshoot or debug consoles. But it was designed to be
recursive - because that's the sort of the problems it was meant to
handle: recursive printks that would otherwise deadlock us. That's why
we have it in the first place.

> > add this "OK! The CPU is preemptible, we can log_store(), it's totally OK, we
> > will not lockup it up." thing. Yes, we fill up the logbuf with probably needed
> > and appreciated or unneeded messages. But we should not care in printk_safe.
> > We don't lockup the kernel... And the misbehaving console must be fixed.
> 
> I agree.

Good.

> > I disagree with "If we are having issues with irq_work, we are going to have
> > issues with a work queue". There is a tremendous difference between irq_work
> > on that CPU and queue_work_on(smp_proessor_id()). One does not care about CPU
> > context, the other one does.
> 
> But switching to work queue does not address the underlining problem
> that printks are causing more printks.

The only way to address those problems is to fix the console. That's the only.

But that's not what I'm doing with my proposal. I fix the lockup scenario, the
only reported problem so far. Whilst also keeping printk_safe around.

	-ss

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
the body to majordomo@kvack.org.  For more info on Linux MM,
see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ .
Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-01-23 16:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 140+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-01-10 13:24 [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup Petr Mladek
2018-01-10 13:24 ` [PATCH v5 1/2] printk: Add console owner and waiter logic to load balance console writes Petr Mladek
2018-01-10 16:50   ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12 16:54   ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12 17:11     ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-17 19:13       ` Rasmus Villemoes
2018-01-17 19:33         ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-19  9:51         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-18 22:03     ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-19  0:20       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-17  2:19   ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-17  4:54     ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-17  7:34     ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-17 12:04     ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-18  1:53       ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-18  1:57         ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-18  2:19         ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-18  4:01           ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-18 15:21             ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-19  2:37               ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-19  3:27                 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-22  2:31                   ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-10 13:24 ` [PATCH v5 2/2] printk: Hide console waiter logic into helpers Petr Mladek
2018-01-10 17:52   ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-11 12:03     ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-12 15:37       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12 16:08         ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-12 16:36           ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-15 16:08             ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-16  5:05               ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-10 14:05 ` [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 16:29   ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-10 17:02     ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 18:21       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-10 18:30         ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 18:41           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-10 19:05             ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-11  5:15         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-10 18:22       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-10 18:36         ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 18:40       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-01-11  7:36         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-11 11:24           ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-11 13:19             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-24  9:36       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-24 18:46         ` Tejun Heo
2018-05-09  8:58       ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-10 18:54     ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-11  5:10     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-10 18:05   ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-10 18:12     ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 18:14       ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 18:45         ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-10 18:41       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-10 18:57         ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 19:17           ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-10 19:34             ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-10 19:44               ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-10 22:44                 ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-11  5:35             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-11  4:58     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-11  9:34       ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-11 10:38         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-11 11:50           ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-11 16:29           ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12  1:30             ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12  2:55               ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12  4:20                 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-16 19:44                 ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-17  9:12                   ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-17 15:15                     ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-17 17:12                       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-17 18:42                         ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-19 18:20                           ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-20  7:14                             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-20 15:49                               ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-21 14:15                                 ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-21 21:04                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-22  8:56                                     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-22 10:28                                       ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-22 10:36                                         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23  6:40                                   ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23  7:05                                     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23  7:31                                     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23 14:56                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-23 15:21                                       ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23 15:41                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-23 15:43                                           ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-23 16:12                                             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23 16:13                                             ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-23 17:21                                               ` Tejun Heo
2018-04-23  5:35                                             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23 16:01                                           ` Sergey Senozhatsky [this message]
2018-01-23 16:24                                             ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-24  2:11                                               ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-24  2:52                                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-24  4:44                                                   ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-23 17:22                                             ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-20 12:19                             ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-20 14:51                               ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-17 20:05                         ` Tejun Heo
2018-01-18  5:43                           ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-18 11:51                           ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-18  5:42                         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-12  3:12               ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-12  2:56             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-12  3:21               ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12 10:05                 ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-12 12:21                   ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-12 12:55                     ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-13  7:31                       ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-15  8:51                         ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-15  9:48                           ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16  5:16                           ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16  9:08                             ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-15 12:08                       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-16  4:51                         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-13  7:28                     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-15 10:17                       ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-15 11:50                         ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-16  6:10                           ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16  9:36                             ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-16 10:10                               ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16 16:06                             ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-16  5:23                         ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-15 12:06                       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-15 14:45                         ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-16  2:23                           ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16  4:47                             ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16 10:19                               ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-17  2:24                                 ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16 15:45                               ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-17  2:18                                 ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-17 13:04                                   ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-17 15:24                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-18  4:31                                     ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-18 15:22                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-01-16 10:13                             ` Petr Mladek
2018-01-17  6:29                               ` Sergey Senozhatsky
2018-01-16  1:46                         ` Sergey Senozhatsky

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20180123160153.GC429@tigerII.localdomain \
    --to=sergey.senozhatsky@gmail.com \
    --cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=byungchul.park@lge.com \
    --cc=dave.hansen@intel.com \
    --cc=hannes@cmpxchg.org \
    --cc=jack@suse.cz \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-mm@kvack.org \
    --cc=mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com \
    --cc=mgorman@suse.de \
    --cc=mhocko@kernel.org \
    --cc=pavel@ucw.cz \
    --cc=penguin-kernel@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp \
    --cc=peterz@infradead.org \
    --cc=pmladek@suse.com \
    --cc=rostedt@goodmis.org \
    --cc=rostedt@home.goodmis.org \
    --cc=sergey.senozhatsky.work@gmail.com \
    --cc=tj@kernel.org \
    --cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=vbabka@suse.cz \
    --cc=xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).