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From: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>
To: Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>
Cc: "Daniel Vetter" <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch>,
	"Michal Hocko" <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Linux MM" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	"DRI Development" <dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	"Intel Graphics Development" <intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Ingo Molnar" <mingo@redhat.com>,
	"David Rientjes" <rientjes@google.com>,
	"Christian König" <christian.koenig@amd.com>,
	"Masahiro Yamada" <yamada.masahiro@socionext.com>,
	"Wei Wang" <wvw@google.com>,
	"Andy Shevchenko" <andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Jann Horn" <jannh@google.com>, "Feng Tang" <feng.tang@intel.com>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Randy Dunlap" <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	"Daniel Vetter" <daniel.vetter@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/5] kernel.h: Add non_block_start/end()
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 14:16:22 -0300
Message-ID: <20190815171622.GL21596@ziepe.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190815163238.GA30781@redhat.com>

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:32:38PM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:10:28PM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 04:43:38PM +0200, Daniel Vetter wrote:
> > 
> > > You have to wait for the gpu to finnish current processing in
> > > invalidate_range_start. Otherwise there's no point to any of this
> > > really. So the wait_event/dma_fence_wait are unavoidable really.
> > 
> > I don't envy your task :|
> > 
> > But, what you describe sure sounds like a 'registration cache' model,
> > not the 'shadow pte' model of coherency.
> > 
> > The key difference is that a regirstationcache is allowed to become
> > incoherent with the VMA's because it holds page pins. It is a
> > programming bug in userspace to change VA mappings via mmap/munmap/etc
> > while the device is working on that VA, but it does not harm system
> > integrity because of the page pin.
> > 
> > The cache ensures that each initiated operation sees a DMA setup that
> > matches the current VA map when the operation is initiated and allows
> > expensive device DMA setups to be re-used.
> > 
> > A 'shadow pte' model (ie hmm) *really* needs device support to
> > directly block DMA access - ie trigger 'device page fault'. ie the
> > invalidate_start should inform the device to enter a fault mode and
> > that is it.  If the device can't do that, then the driver probably
> > shouldn't persue this level of coherency. The driver would quickly get
> > into the messy locking problems like dma_fence_wait from a notifier.
> 
> I think here we do not agree on the hardware requirement. For GPU
> we will always need to be able to wait for some GPU fence from inside
> the notifier callback, there is just no way around that for many of
> the GPUs today (i do not see any indication of that changing).

I didn't say you couldn't wait, I was trying to say that the wait
should only be contigent on the HW itself. Ie you can wait on a GPU
page table lock, and you can wait on a GPU page table flush completion
via IRQ.

What is troubling is to wait till some other thread gets a GPU command
completion and decr's a kref on the DMA buffer - which kinda looks
like what this dma_fence() stuff is all about. A driver like that
would have to be super careful to ensure consistent forward progress
toward dma ref == 0 when the system is under reclaim. 

ie by running it's entire IRQ flow under fs_reclaim locking.

> associated with the mm_struct. In all GPU driver so far it is a short
> lived lock and nothing blocking is done while holding it (it is just
> about updating page table directory really wether it is filling it or
> clearing it).

The main blocking I expect in a shadow PTE flow is waiting for the HW
to complete invalidations of its PTE cache.

> > It is important to identify what model you are going for as defining a
> > 'registration cache' coherence expectation allows the driver to skip
> > blocking in invalidate_range_start. All it does is invalidate the
> > cache so that future operations pick up the new VA mapping.
> > 
> > Intel's HFI RDMA driver uses this model extensively, and I think it is
> > well proven, within some limitations of course.
> > 
> > At least, 'registration cache' is the only use model I know of where
> > it is acceptable to skip invalidate_range_end.
> 
> Here GPU are not in the registration cache model, i know it might looks
> like it because of GUP but GUP was use just because hmm did not exist
> at the time.

It is not because of GUP, it is because of the lack of
invalidate_range_end. A driver cannot correctly implement the SPTE
model without invalidate_range_end, even if it holds the page pins via
GUP.

So, I've been assuming the few drivers without invalidate_range_end
are trying to do registration caching, rather than assuming they are
broken.

Jason


  reply index

Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-08-14 20:20 [PATCH 0/5] hmm & mmu_notifier debug/lockdep annotations Daniel Vetter
2019-08-14 20:20 ` [PATCH 1/5] mm: Check if mmu notifier callbacks are allowed to fail Daniel Vetter
2019-08-14 22:14   ` Andrew Morton
2019-08-14 23:22     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-14 23:34     ` Ralph Campbell
2019-08-16 17:19   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-14 20:20 ` [PATCH 2/5] kernel.h: Add non_block_start/end() Daniel Vetter
2019-08-14 20:45   ` Andrew Morton
2019-08-15  6:52     ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15  8:44     ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 13:04       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 13:12         ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 14:37           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 14:43             ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 15:10               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 16:25                 ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 17:35                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 17:39                     ` Jerome Glisse
2019-08-15 18:01                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 18:27                         ` Jerome Glisse
2019-08-15 18:57                           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 16:32                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-08-15 17:16                   ` Jason Gunthorpe [this message]
2019-08-15 17:21                     ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 17:35                       ` Jerome Glisse
2019-08-15 13:24         ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 22:15       ` Andrew Morton
2019-08-16  8:24         ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-14 23:58   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15  6:58     ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 12:23       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 13:21         ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 14:12           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 16:00             ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 16:56               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 17:11                 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-08-15 17:17                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 17:42                 ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 17:57                   ` Jerome Glisse
2019-08-15 18:24                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 19:05                     ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 19:18                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 19:35                         ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 20:13                           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-16  8:10                             ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-16 12:19                               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-16 12:26                                 ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-15 20:16                           ` [Intel-gfx] " Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 20:27                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15 20:49                               ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-16  1:00                                 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-16  6:20                                   ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-16 12:12                                     ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-16 14:11                                       ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-16 14:38                                         ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-16 16:36                                           ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-16 16:54                                             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-16  8:27                             ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-14 20:20 ` [PATCH 3/5] mm, notifier: Catch sleeping/blocking for !blockable Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15  0:00   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15  7:02     ` Daniel Vetter
     [not found]       ` <20190815123556.GB21596@ziepe.ca>
2019-08-17 16:09         ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-14 20:20 ` [PATCH 4/5] mm, notifier: Add a lockdep map for invalidate_range_start Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15  0:09   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15  7:10     ` Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15 12:53       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-14 20:20 ` [PATCH 5/5] mm/hmm: WARN on illegal ->sync_cpu_device_pagetables errors Daniel Vetter
2019-08-15  0:11   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-08-15  7:14     ` Daniel Vetter

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