From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE74C32753 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 13:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C30920679 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 13:47:49 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0C30920679 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=suse.cz Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 9903C6B0003; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 940A96B0006; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:47:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 807006B0007; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:47:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0045.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.45]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D756B0003 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 09:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin24.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 01B958248AA1 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 13:47:48 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 75817532658.24.nut58_9ed49812e619 X-HE-Tag: nut58_9ed49812e619 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 8644 Received: from mx1.suse.de (mx2.suse.de [195.135.220.15]) by imf45.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 13:47:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DE7ADDC; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 13:47:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Let's talk about the elephant in the room - the Linux kernel's inability to gracefully handle low memory pressure To: Johannes Weiner Cc: Michal Hocko , Suren Baghdasaryan , "Artem S. Tashkinov" , Andrew Morton , LKML , linux-mm References: <398f31f3-0353-da0c-fc54-643687bb4774@suse.cz> <20190806142728.GA12107@cmpxchg.org> <20190806143608.GE11812@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190806220150.GA22516@cmpxchg.org> <20190807075927.GO11812@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190807205138.GA24222@cmpxchg.org> <20190808172725.GA16900@cmpxchg.org> <6e7f0cd2-8b13-7534-1c0e-f3569f8b4c05@suse.cz> <20190809173108.GA21089@cmpxchg.org> From: Vlastimil Babka Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=vbabka@suse.cz; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFZdmxYBEADsw/SiUSjB0dM+vSh95UkgcHjzEVBlby/Fg+g42O7LAEkCYXi/vvq31JTB KxRWDHX0R2tgpFDXHnzZcQywawu8eSq0LxzxFNYMvtB7sV1pxYwej2qx9B75qW2plBs+7+YB 87tMFA+u+L4Z5xAzIimfLD5EKC56kJ1CsXlM8S/LHcmdD9Ctkn3trYDNnat0eoAcfPIP2OZ+ 9oe9IF/R28zmh0ifLXyJQQz5ofdj4bPf8ecEW0rhcqHfTD8k4yK0xxt3xW+6Exqp9n9bydiy tcSAw/TahjW6yrA+6JhSBv1v2tIm+itQc073zjSX8OFL51qQVzRFr7H2UQG33lw2QrvHRXqD Ot7ViKam7v0Ho9wEWiQOOZlHItOOXFphWb2yq3nzrKe45oWoSgkxKb97MVsQ+q2SYjJRBBH4 8qKhphADYxkIP6yut/eaj9ImvRUZZRi0DTc8xfnvHGTjKbJzC2xpFcY0DQbZzuwsIZ8OPJCc LM4S7mT25NE5kUTG/TKQCk922vRdGVMoLA7dIQrgXnRXtyT61sg8PG4wcfOnuWf8577aXP1x 6mzw3/jh3F+oSBHb/GcLC7mvWreJifUL2gEdssGfXhGWBo6zLS3qhgtwjay0Jl+kza1lo+Cv BB2T79D4WGdDuVa4eOrQ02TxqGN7G0Biz5ZLRSFzQSQwLn8fbwARAQABtCBWbGFzdGltaWwg QmFia2EgPHZiYWJrYUBzdXNlLmN6PokCVAQTAQoAPgIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIe AQIXgBYhBKlA1DSZLC6OmRA9UCJPp+fMgqZkBQJcbbyGBQkH8VTqAAoJECJPp+fMgqZkpGoP /1jhVihakxw1d67kFhPgjWrbzaeAYOJu7Oi79D8BL8Vr5dmNPygbpGpJaCHACWp+10KXj9yz fWABs01KMHnZsAIUytVsQv35DMMDzgwVmnoEIRBhisMYOQlH2bBn/dqBjtnhs7zTL4xtqEcF 1hoUFEByMOey7gm79utTk09hQE/Zo2x0Ikk98sSIKBETDCl4mkRVRlxPFl4O/w8dSaE4eczH LrKezaFiZOv6S1MUKVKzHInonrCqCNbXAHIeZa3JcXCYj1wWAjOt9R3NqcWsBGjFbkgoKMGD usiGabetmQjXNlVzyOYdAdrbpVRNVnaL91sB2j8LRD74snKsV0Wzwt90YHxDQ5z3M75YoIdl byTKu3BUuqZxkQ/emEuxZ7aRJ1Zw7cKo/IVqjWaQ1SSBDbZ8FAUPpHJxLdGxPRN8Pfw8blKY 8mvLJKoF6i9T6+EmlyzxqzOFhcc4X5ig5uQoOjTIq6zhLO+nqVZvUDd2Kz9LMOCYb516cwS/ Enpi0TcZ5ZobtLqEaL4rupjcJG418HFQ1qxC95u5FfNki+YTmu6ZLXy+1/9BDsPuZBOKYpUm 3HWSnCS8J5Ny4SSwfYPH/JrtberWTcCP/8BHmoSpS/3oL3RxrZRRVnPHFzQC6L1oKvIuyXYF rkybPXYbmNHN+jTD3X8nRqo+4Qhmu6SHi3VquQENBFsZNQwBCACuowprHNSHhPBKxaBX7qOv KAGCmAVhK0eleElKy0sCkFghTenu1sA9AV4okL84qZ9gzaEoVkgbIbDgRbKY2MGvgKxXm+kY n8tmCejKoeyVcn9Xs0K5aUZiDz4Ll9VPTiXdf8YcjDgeP6/l4kHb4uSW4Aa9ds0xgt0gP1Xb AMwBlK19YvTDZV5u3YVoGkZhspfQqLLtBKSt3FuxTCU7hxCInQd3FHGJT/IIrvm07oDO2Y8J DXWHGJ9cK49bBGmK9B4ajsbe5GxtSKFccu8BciNluF+BqbrIiM0upJq5Xqj4y+Xjrpwqm4/M ScBsV0Po7qdeqv0pEFIXKj7IgO/d4W2bABEBAAGJA3IEGAEKACYWIQSpQNQ0mSwujpkQPVAi T6fnzIKmZAUCWxk1DAIbAgUJA8JnAAFACRAiT6fnzIKmZMB0IAQZAQoAHRYhBKZ2GgCcqNxn k0Sx9r6Fd25170XjBQJbGTUMAAoJEL6Fd25170XjDBUH/2jQ7a8g+FC2qBYxU/aCAVAVY0NE YuABL4LJ5+iWwmqUh0V9+lU88Cv4/G8fWwU+hBykSXhZXNQ5QJxyR7KWGy7LiPi7Cvovu+1c 9Z9HIDNd4u7bxGKMpn19U12ATUBHAlvphzluVvXsJ23ES/F1c59d7IrgOnxqIcXxr9dcaJ2K k9VP3TfrjP3g98OKtSsyH0xMu0MCeyewf1piXyukFRRMKIErfThhmNnLiDbaVy6biCLx408L Mo4cCvEvqGKgRwyckVyo3JuhqreFeIKBOE1iHvf3x4LU8cIHdjhDP9Wf6ws1XNqIvve7oV+w B56YWoalm1rq00yUbs2RoGcXmtX1JQ//aR/paSuLGLIb3ecPB88rvEXPsizrhYUzbe1TTkKc 4a4XwW4wdc6pRPVFMdd5idQOKdeBk7NdCZXNzoieFntyPpAq+DveK01xcBoXQ2UktIFIsXey uSNdLd5m5lf7/3f0BtaY//f9grm363NUb9KBsTSnv6Vx7Co0DWaxgC3MFSUhxzBzkJNty+2d 10jvtwOWzUN+74uXGRYSq5WefQWqqQNnx+IDb4h81NmpIY/X0PqZrapNockj3WHvpbeVFAJ0 9MRzYP3x8e5OuEuJfkNnAbwRGkDy98nXW6fKeemREjr8DWfXLKFWroJzkbAVmeIL0pjXATxr +tj5JC0uvMrrXefUhXTo0SNoTsuO/OsAKOcVsV/RHHTwCDR2e3W8mOlA3QbYXsscgjghbuLh J3oTRrOQa8tUXWqcd5A0+QPo5aaMHIK0UAthZsry5EmCY3BrbXUJlt+23E93hXQvfcsmfi0N rNh81eknLLWRYvMOsrbIqEHdZBT4FHHiGjnck6EYx/8F5BAZSodRVEAgXyC8IQJ+UVa02QM5 D2VL8zRXZ6+wARKjgSrW+duohn535rG/ypd0ctLoXS6dDrFokwTQ2xrJiLbHp9G+noNTHSan ExaRzyLbvmblh3AAznb68cWmM3WVkceWACUalsoTLKF1sGrrIBj5updkKkzbKOq5gcC5AQ0E Wxk1NQEIAJ9B+lKxYlnKL5IehF1XJfknqsjuiRzj5vnvVrtFcPlSFL12VVFVUC2tT0A1Iuo9 NAoZXEeuoPf1dLDyHErrWnDyn3SmDgb83eK5YS/K363RLEMOQKWcawPJGGVTIRZgUSgGusKL NuZqE5TCqQls0x/OPljufs4gk7E1GQEgE6M90Xbp0w/r0HB49BqjUzwByut7H2wAdiNAbJWZ F5GNUS2/2IbgOhOychHdqYpWTqyLgRpf+atqkmpIJwFRVhQUfwztuybgJLGJ6vmh/LyNMRr8 J++SqkpOFMwJA81kpjuGR7moSrUIGTbDGFfjxmskQV/W/c25Xc6KaCwXah3OJ40AEQEAAYkC PAQYAQoAJhYhBKlA1DSZLC6OmRA9UCJPp+fMgqZkBQJbGTU1AhsMBQkDwmcAAAoJECJPp+fM gqZkPN4P/Ra4NbETHRj5/fM1fjtngt4dKeX/6McUPDIRuc58B6FuCQxtk7sX3ELs+1+w3eSV rHI5cOFRSdgw/iKwwBix8D4Qq0cnympZ622KJL2wpTPRLlNaFLoe5PkoORAjVxLGplvQIlhg miljQ3R63ty3+MZfkSVsYITlVkYlHaSwP2t8g7yTVa+q8ZAx0NT9uGWc/1Sg8j/uoPGrctml hFNGBTYyPq6mGW9jqaQ8en3ZmmJyw3CHwxZ5FZQ5qc55xgshKiy8jEtxh+dgB9d8zE/S/UGI E99N/q+kEKSgSMQMJ/CYPHQJVTi4YHh1yq/qTkHRX+ortrF5VEeDJDv+SljNStIxUdroPD29 2ijoaMFTAU+uBtE14UP5F+LWdmRdEGS1Ah1NwooL27uAFllTDQxDhg/+LJ/TqB8ZuidOIy1B xVKRSg3I2m+DUTVqBy7Lixo73hnW69kSjtqCeamY/NSu6LNP+b0wAOKhwz9hBEwEHLp05+mj 5ZFJyfGsOiNUcMoO/17FO4EBxSDP3FDLllpuzlFD7SXkfJaMWYmXIlO0jLzdfwfcnDzBbPwO hBM8hvtsyq8lq8vJOxv6XD6xcTtj5Az8t2JjdUX6SF9hxJpwhBU0wrCoGDkWp4Bbv6jnF7zP Nzftr4l8RuJoywDIiJpdaNpSlXKpj/K6KrnyAI/joYc7 Message-ID: <71773a98-803f-7731-e47c-d51cf262bbf7@suse.cz> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 15:47:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190809173108.GA21089@cmpxchg.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On 8/9/19 7:31 PM, Johannes Weiner wrote: >> It made a difference, but not enough, it seems. Before the patch I could >> observe "io:full avg10" around 75% and "memory:full avg10" around 20%, >> after the patch, "memory:full avg10" went to around 45%, while io stayed >> the same (BTW should the refaults be discounted from the io counters, so >> that the sum is still <=100%?) >> >> As a result I could change the knobs to recover successfully with >> thrashing detected for 10s of 40% memory pressure. >> >> Perhaps being low on memory we can't detect refaults so well due to >> limited number of shadow entries, or there was genuine non-refault I/O >> in the mix. The detection would then probably have to look at both I/O >> and memory? > > Thanks for testing it. It's possible that there is legitimate > non-refault IO, and there can be interaction of course between that > and the refault IO. But to be sure that all genuine refaults are > captured, can you record the workingset_* values from /proc/vmstat > before/after the thrash storm? In particular, workingset_nodereclaim > would indicate whether we are losing refault information. Let's see... after a ~45 second stall that I ended up by alt-sysrq-f, I see the following pressure info: cpu:some avg10=1.04 avg60=2.22 avg300=2.01 total=147402828 io:some avg10=97.13 avg60=65.48 avg300=28.86 total=240442256 io:full avg10=83.93 avg60=57.05 avg300=24.56 total=212125506 memory:some avg10=54.62 avg60=33.69 avg300=15.89 total=67989547 memory:full avg10=44.48 avg60=28.17 avg300=13.17 total=55963961 Captured vmstat workingset values before: workingset_nodes 15756 workingset_refault 6111959 workingset_activate 1805063 workingset_restore 919138 workingset_nodereclaim 40796 pgpgin 33889644 after: workingset_nodes 14842 workingset_refault 9248248 workingset_activate 1966317 workingset_restore 961179 workingset_nodereclaim 41060 pgpgin 46488352 Doesn't seem like losing too much refault info, and it's indeed a mix of refaults and other I/O? (difference is 3M for refaults and 12.5M for pgpgin). > [ The different resource pressures are not meant to be summed > up. Refaults truly are both IO events and memory events: they > indicate memory contention, but they also contribute to the IO > load. So both metrics need to include them, or it would skew the > picture when you only look at one of them. ] Understood, makes sense.