From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37CE8C49ED6 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:56:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E008C206A1 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:55:59 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org E008C206A1 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 9256C6B0006; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 8D6A46B0007; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:55:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 79D4B6B0008; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:55:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0004.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.4]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F9E6B0006 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin11.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 03CF4181AC9BF for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:55:59 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 75922637238.11.owl92_512eec26d3512 X-HE-Tag: owl92_512eec26d3512 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 10281 Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [209.132.183.28]) by imf10.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:55:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34FA530BA1B6; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:55:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.18.17.163] (dhcp-17-163.bos.redhat.com [10.18.17.163]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE2B710016EB; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:55:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 0/8] stg mail -e --version=v9 \ To: David Hildenbrand , Michal Hocko , "Michael S. Tsirkin" Cc: Alexander Duyck , Alexander Duyck , virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, kvm list , Catalin Marinas , Dave Hansen , LKML , Matthew Wilcox , linux-mm , Andrew Morton , will@kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Oscar Salvador , Yang Zhang , Pankaj Gupta , Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , Rik van Riel , lcapitulino@redhat.com, "Wang, Wei W" , Andrea Arcangeli , ying.huang@intel.com, Paolo Bonzini , Dan Williams , Fengguang Wu , "Kirill A. Shutemov" References: <20190907172225.10910.34302.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <20190910124209.GY2063@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190910144713.GF2063@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190910175213.GD4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <1d7de9f9f4074f67c567dbb4cc1497503d739e30.camel@linux.intel.com> <20190911113619.GP4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190911080804-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20190911121941.GU4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190911122526.GV4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <4748a572-57b3-31da-0dde-30138e550c3a@redhat.com> From: Nitesh Narayan Lal Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=nitesh@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFl4pQoBEADT/nXR2JOfsCjDgYmE2qonSGjkM1g8S6p9UWD+bf7YEAYYYzZsLtbilFTe z4nL4AV6VJmC7dBIlTi3Mj2eymD/2dkKP6UXlliWkq67feVg1KG+4UIp89lFW7v5Y8Muw3Fm uQbFvxyhN8n3tmhRe+ScWsndSBDxYOZgkbCSIfNPdZrHcnOLfA7xMJZeRCjqUpwhIjxQdFA7 n0s0KZ2cHIsemtBM8b2WXSQG9CjqAJHVkDhrBWKThDRF7k80oiJdEQlTEiVhaEDURXq+2XmG jpCnvRQDb28EJSsQlNEAzwzHMeplddfB0vCg9fRk/kOBMDBtGsTvNT9OYUZD+7jaf0gvBvBB lbKmmMMX7uJB+ejY7bnw6ePNrVPErWyfHzR5WYrIFUtgoR3LigKnw5apzc7UIV9G8uiIcZEn C+QJCK43jgnkPcSmwVPztcrkbC84g1K5v2Dxh9amXKLBA1/i+CAY8JWMTepsFohIFMXNLj+B RJoOcR4HGYXZ6CAJa3Glu3mCmYqHTOKwezJTAvmsCLd3W7WxOGF8BbBjVaPjcZfavOvkin0u DaFvhAmrzN6lL0msY17JCZo046z8oAqkyvEflFbC0S1R/POzehKrzQ1RFRD3/YzzlhmIowkM BpTqNBeHEzQAlIhQuyu1ugmQtfsYYq6FPmWMRfFPes/4JUU/PQARAQABtCVOaXRlc2ggTmFy YXlhbiBMYWwgPG5pbGFsQHJlZGhhdC5jb20+iQI9BBMBCAAnBQJZeKUKAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJ CAcCBhUICQoLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEKOGQNwGMqM56lEP/A2KMs/pu0URcVk/kqVwcBhU SnvB8DP3lDWDnmVrAkFEOnPX7GTbactQ41wF/xwjwmEmTzLrMRZpkqz2y9mV0hWHjqoXbOCS 6RwK3ri5e2ThIPoGxFLt6TrMHgCRwm8YuOSJ97o+uohCTN8pmQ86KMUrDNwMqRkeTRW9wWIQ EdDqW44VwelnyPwcmWHBNNb1Kd8j3xKlHtnS45vc6WuoKxYRBTQOwI/5uFpDZtZ1a5kq9Ak/ MOPDDZpd84rqd+IvgMw5z4a5QlkvOTpScD21G3gjmtTEtyfahltyDK/5i8IaQC3YiXJCrqxE r7/4JMZeOYiKpE9iZMtS90t4wBgbVTqAGH1nE/ifZVAUcCtycD0f3egX9CHe45Ad4fsF3edQ ESa5tZAogiA4Hc/yQpnnf43a3aQ67XPOJXxS0Qptzu4vfF9h7kTKYWSrVesOU3QKYbjEAf95 NewF9FhAlYqYrwIwnuAZ8TdXVDYt7Z3z506//sf6zoRwYIDA8RDqFGRuPMXUsoUnf/KKPrtR ceLcSUP/JCNiYbf1/QtW8S6Ca/4qJFXQHp0knqJPGmwuFHsarSdpvZQ9qpxD3FnuPyo64S2N Dfq8TAeifNp2pAmPY2PAHQ3nOmKgMG8Gn5QiORvMUGzSz8Lo31LW58NdBKbh6bci5+t/HE0H pnyVf5xhNC/FuQINBFl4pQoBEACr+MgxWHUP76oNNYjRiNDhaIVtnPRqxiZ9v4H5FPxJy9UD Bqr54rifr1E+K+yYNPt/Po43vVL2cAyfyI/LVLlhiY4yH6T1n+Di/hSkkviCaf13gczuvgz4 KVYLwojU8+naJUsiCJw01MjO3pg9GQ+47HgsnRjCdNmmHiUQqksMIfd8k3reO9SUNlEmDDNB XuSzkHjE5y/R/6p8uXaVpiKPfHoULjNRWaFc3d2JGmxJpBdpYnajoz61m7XJlgwl/B5Ql/6B dHGaX3VHxOZsfRfugwYF9CkrPbyO5PK7yJ5vaiWre7aQ9bmCtXAomvF1q3/qRwZp77k6i9R3 tWfXjZDOQokw0u6d6DYJ0Vkfcwheg2i/Mf/epQl7Pf846G3PgSnyVK6cRwerBl5a68w7xqVU 4KgAh0DePjtDcbcXsKRT9D63cfyfrNE+ea4i0SVik6+N4nAj1HbzWHTk2KIxTsJXypibOKFX 2VykltxutR1sUfZBYMkfU4PogE7NjVEU7KtuCOSAkYzIWrZNEQrxYkxHLJsWruhSYNRsqVBy KvY6JAsq/i5yhVd5JKKU8wIOgSwC9P6mXYRgwPyfg15GZpnw+Fpey4bCDkT5fMOaCcS+vSU1 UaFmC4Ogzpe2BW2DOaPU5Ik99zUFNn6cRmOOXArrryjFlLT5oSOe4IposgWzdwARAQABiQIl BBgBCAAPBQJZeKUKAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEKOGQNwGMqM5ELoP/jj9d9gF1Al4+9bngUlYohYu 0sxyZo9IZ7Yb7cHuJzOMqfgoP4tydP4QCuyd9Q2OHHL5AL4VFNb8SvqAxxYSPuDJTI3JZwI7 d8JTPKwpulMSUaJE8ZH9n8A/+sdC3CAD4QafVBcCcbFe1jifHmQRdDrvHV9Es14QVAOTZhnJ vweENyHEIxkpLsyUUDuVypIo6y/Cws+EBCWt27BJi9GH/EOTB0wb+2ghCs/i3h8a+bi+bS7L FCCm/AxIqxRurh2UySn0P/2+2eZvneJ1/uTgfxnjeSlwQJ1BWzMAdAHQO1/lnbyZgEZEtUZJ x9d9ASekTtJjBMKJXAw7GbB2dAA/QmbA+Q+Xuamzm/1imigz6L6sOt2n/X/SSc33w8RJUyor SvAIoG/zU2Y76pKTgbpQqMDmkmNYFMLcAukpvC4ki3Sf086TdMgkjqtnpTkEElMSFJC8npXv 3QnGGOIfFug/qs8z03DLPBz9VYS26jiiN7QIJVpeeEdN/LKnaz5LO+h5kNAyj44qdF2T2AiF HxnZnxO5JNP5uISQH3FjxxGxJkdJ8jKzZV7aT37sC+Rp0o3KNc+GXTR+GSVq87Xfuhx0LRST NK9ZhT0+qkiN7npFLtNtbzwqaqceq3XhafmCiw8xrtzCnlB/C4SiBr/93Ip4kihXJ0EuHSLn VujM7c/b4pps Organization: Red Hat Inc, Message-ID: <87e0f863-6a49-c07e-49a7-c8a5bdb745ba@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:55:17 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4748a572-57b3-31da-0dde-30138e550c3a@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.48]); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:55:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On 9/11/19 8:42 AM, David Hildenbrand wrote: > On 11.09.19 14:25, Michal Hocko wrote: >> On Wed 11-09-19 14:19:41, Michal Hocko wrote: >>> On Wed 11-09-19 08:08:38, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 01:36:19PM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote: >>>>> On Tue 10-09-19 14:23:40, Alexander Duyck wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>>> We don't put any limitations on the allocator other then that it n= eeds to >>>>>> clean up the metadata on allocation, and that it cannot allocate a= page >>>>>> that is in the process of being reported since we pulled it from t= he >>>>>> free_list. If the page is a "Reported" page then it decrements the= >>>>>> reported_pages count for the free_area and makes sure the page doe= sn't >>>>>> exist in the "Boundary" array pointer value, if it does it moves t= he >>>>>> "Boundary" since it is pulling the page. >>>>> This is still a non-trivial limitation on the page allocation from = an >>>>> external code IMHO. I cannot give any explicit reason why an orderi= ng on >>>>> the free list might matter (well except for page shuffling which us= es it >>>>> to make physical memory pattern allocation more random) but the >>>>> architecture seems hacky and dubious to be honest. It shoulds like = the >>>>> whole interface has been developed around a very particular and sin= gle >>>>> purpose optimization. >>>>> >>>>> I remember that there was an attempt to report free memory that pro= vided >>>>> a callback mechanism [1], which was much less intrusive to the inte= rnals >>>>> of the allocator yet it should provide a similar functionality. Did= you >>>>> see that approach? How does this compares to it? Or am I completely= off >>>>> when comparing them? >>>>> >>>>> [1] mostly likely not the latest version of the patchset >>>>> http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1502940416-42944-5-git-send-email-wei.w.wa= ng@intel.com >>>> Linus nacked that one. He thinks invoking callbacks with lots of >>>> internal mm locks is too fragile. >>> I would be really curious how much he would be happy about injecting >>> other restrictions on the allocator like this patch proposes. This is= >>> more intrusive as it has a higher maintenance cost longterm IMHO. >> Btw. I do agree that callbacks with internal mm locks are not great >> either. We do have a model for that in mmu_notifiers and it is somethi= ng >> I do consider PITA, on the other hand it is mostly sleepable part of t= he >> interface which makes it the real pain. The above callback mechanism w= as >> explicitly documented with restrictions and that the context is >> essentially atomic with no access to particular struct pages and no >> expensive operations possible. So in the end I've considered it >> acceptably painful. Not that I want to override Linus' nack but if >> virtualization usecases really require some form of reporting and no >> other way to do that push people to invent even more interesting >> approaches then we should simply give them/you something reasonable >> and least intrusive to our internals. >> > The issue with "[PATCH v14 4/5] mm: support reporting free page blocks"= > is that it cannot really handle the use case we have here if I am not > wrong. While a page is getting processed by the hypervisor (e.g. > MADV_DONTNEED), it must not get reused. > > "Some page blocks may > leave the free list after zone->lock is released, so it is the caller's= > responsibility to either detect or prevent the use of such pages." > > If I'm not wrong, this only made sense to speed up migration in the > hypervisor, where you can deal with false positives differently. Another difference between the two approaches is the origin from where the reporting request is getting generated. (If I remember correctly) In Alexander's series or in my series [1], VM is able to report pages dynamically without any requirement of host intervention. [1]=C2=A0https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/8/12/593 --=20 Thanks Nitesh