From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Memory folios for v5.15
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 21:00:23 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <YSVP14doJ0wwb11x@casper.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YSVMMMrzqxyFjHlw@mit.edu>
On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 03:44:48PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 08:23:15PM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > So when you mention "slab" as a name example, that's not the argument
> > > you think it is. That's a real honest-to-goodness operating system
> > > convention name that doesn't exactly predate Linux, but is most
> > > certainly not new.
> >
> > Sure, but at the time Jeff Bonwick chose it, it had no meaning in
> > computer science or operating system design.
>
> I think the big difference is that "slab" is mostly used as an
> internal name. In Linux it doesn't even leak out to the users, since
> we use kmem_cache_{create,alloc,free,destroy}(). So the "slab"
> doesn't even show up in the API.
/proc/slabinfo
/proc/sys/vm/min_slab_ratio
/sys/kernel/slab
include/linux/slab.h
cpuset.memory_spread_slab
failslab=
slab_merge
slab_max_order=
$ git grep slab fs/ext4 |wc -l
30
(13 of which are slab.h)
> The problem is whether we use struct head_page, or folio, or mempages,
> we're going to be subsystem users' faces. And people who are using it
> every day will eventually get used to anything, whether it's "folio"
> or "xmoqax", we sould give a thought to newcomers to Linux file system
> code. If they see things like "read_folio()", they are going to be
> far more confused than "read_pages()" or "read_mempages()".
>
> Sure, one impenetrable code word isn't that bad. But this is a case
> of a death by a thousand cuts. At $WORK, one time we had welcomed an
> intern to our group, I had to stop everyone each time that they used
> an acronym, or a codeword, and asked them to define the term.
>
> It was really illuminating what an insider takes for granted, but when
> it's one cutsy codeword after another, with three or more such
> codewords in a sentence, it's *really* a less-than-great initial
> experience for a newcomer.
>
> So if someone sees "kmem_cache_alloc()", they can probably make a
> guess what it means, and it's memorable once they learn it.
> Similarly, something like "head_page", or "mempages" is going to a bit
> more obvious to a kernel newbie. So if we can make a tiny gesture
> towards comprehensibility, it would be good to do so while it's still
> easier to change the name.
I completely agree that it's good to use something which is not jargon,
or is at least widely-understood jargon. And I loathe acronyms (you'll
notice I haven't suggested a single one). Folio/ream/quire/sheaf were
all attempts to get across "collection of pages". Another direction
would be something that is associated with memory (but I don't have
a good example). Or a non-English word (roman? seite? sidor?)
We're going to end up with hpage, aren't we?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-08-24 20:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-08-23 19:01 [GIT PULL] Memory folios for v5.15 Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-23 21:26 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-23 22:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 2:20 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 13:04 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-23 22:15 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 18:32 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-24 18:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-25 6:39 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-24 19:44 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-25 15:13 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-26 0:45 ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-08-27 14:07 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-27 18:44 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-27 21:41 ` Dan Williams
2021-08-27 21:49 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-30 17:32 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-30 18:22 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-30 20:27 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-30 21:38 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-31 17:40 ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-09-01 17:43 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-02 15:13 ` Zi Yan
2021-09-06 14:00 ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-08-31 18:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2021-08-26 8:58 ` David Howells
2021-08-27 10:03 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-08-27 12:05 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-27 10:49 ` David Howells
2021-08-24 15:54 ` David Howells
2021-08-24 17:56 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 18:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 18:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:26 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-08-24 19:34 ` David Howells
2021-08-24 20:02 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-08-24 21:32 ` David Howells
2021-08-25 12:08 ` Jeff Layton
2021-08-24 19:01 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 19:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:23 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 19:44 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-08-24 20:00 ` Matthew Wilcox [this message]
2021-08-25 6:32 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-25 9:01 ` Rasmus Villemoes
2021-08-26 6:32 ` Amir Goldstein
2021-08-25 12:03 ` Jeff Layton
2021-08-26 0:59 ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-08-26 4:02 ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-09-01 12:58 ` Mike Rapoport
2021-08-24 19:35 ` David Howells
2021-08-24 20:35 ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-08-24 20:40 ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-08-24 19:11 ` David Howells
2021-08-24 19:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-24 19:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-08-26 17:18 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-08-24 19:59 ` David Howells
2021-10-05 13:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-05 17:29 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-05 17:32 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-05 18:30 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-05 19:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2021-08-28 3:29 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-09 12:43 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-09-09 13:56 ` Vlastimil Babka
2021-09-09 18:16 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-09 18:44 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-09 22:03 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-09 22:48 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-09 19:17 ` John Hubbard
2021-09-09 19:23 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-10 20:16 ` Folio discussion recap Kent Overstreet
2021-09-11 1:23 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-13 11:32 ` Michal Hocko
2021-09-13 18:12 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-15 15:40 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-15 17:55 ` Damian Tometzki
2021-09-16 2:58 ` Darrick J. Wong
2021-09-16 16:54 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-17 5:24 ` Dave Chinner
2021-09-17 7:18 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-09-17 16:31 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-17 20:57 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-17 21:17 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-17 22:02 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-17 22:21 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-17 23:15 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-20 10:03 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-09-17 21:13 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-17 22:25 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 23:35 ` Josef Bacik
2021-09-18 1:04 ` Dave Chinner
2021-09-18 4:51 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-20 1:04 ` Dave Chinner
2021-09-16 21:58 ` David Howells
2021-09-20 2:17 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-21 19:47 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-21 20:38 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-21 21:11 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-21 21:22 ` Folios for 5.15 request - Was: re: Folio discussion recap - Kent Overstreet
2021-09-22 15:08 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-22 15:46 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-22 16:26 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-22 16:56 ` Chris Mason
2021-09-22 19:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-22 20:15 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-22 20:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-09-23 5:42 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-09-23 18:00 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-23 19:31 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-23 20:20 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-16 3:28 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-18 16:47 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-18 18:12 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-18 20:45 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-19 16:11 ` Splitting struct page into multiple types " Kent Overstreet
2021-10-19 17:06 ` Gao Xiang
2021-10-19 17:34 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-19 17:54 ` Gao Xiang
2021-10-20 17:46 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-19 17:37 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2021-10-19 21:14 ` David Howells
2021-10-18 18:28 ` Folios for 5.15 request " Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-18 21:56 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-18 23:16 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2021-10-19 15:16 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-20 3:19 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-20 7:50 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-20 17:26 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-20 18:04 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 6:51 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 7:21 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 12:03 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-21 12:35 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 12:38 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-21 13:00 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-21 12:41 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-20 17:39 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-21 21:37 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-22 1:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-22 7:59 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-22 13:01 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-22 14:40 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-23 2:22 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-23 5:02 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-10-23 9:58 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-10-23 16:00 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-23 21:41 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-23 22:23 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-25 15:35 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-10-25 15:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-25 16:05 ` Kent Overstreet
2021-10-16 19:07 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-10-18 17:25 ` Johannes Weiner
2021-09-21 22:18 ` Folio discussion recap Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-23 0:45 ` Ira Weiny
2021-09-23 3:41 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-23 22:12 ` Ira Weiny
2021-09-29 15:24 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-09-21 21:59 ` Johannes Weiner
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