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* [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug
       [not found] <20181130192737.15053-1-jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
@ 2018-11-30 19:27 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:48   ` Dennis Clarke
  2018-11-30 23:05   ` Diego Viola
  2018-11-30 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3 Kees Cook
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel
  Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen, James E.J. Bottomley, Helge Deller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Kees Cook, Andrew Morton, linux-parisc

In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.

Signed-off-by: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
---
 arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c b/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c
index 376ea0d1b275..4782c41f00c8 100644
--- a/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c
+++ b/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c
@@ -287,7 +287,7 @@ asmlinkage unsigned long sys_mmap(unsigned long addr, unsigned long len,
 	}
 }
 
-/* Fucking broken ABI */
+/* Hugging broken ABI */
 
 #ifdef CONFIG_64BIT
 asmlinkage long parisc_truncate64(const char __user * path,
-- 
2.19.1


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
       [not found] <20181130192737.15053-1-jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
  2018-11-30 19:27 ` [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 19:40 ` Kees Cook
  2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
                     ` (3 more replies)
  1 sibling, 4 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Kees Cook @ 2018-11-30 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
<jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>
> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.

Heh. I support the replacement of the stronger language, but I find
"hug", "hugged", and "hugging" to be very weird replacements. Can we
bikeshed this to "heck", "hecked", and "hecking" (or "heckin" to
follow true Doggo meme style).

"This API is hugged" doesn't make any sense to me. "This API is
hecked" is better, or at least funnier (to me). "Hug this interface"
similarly makes no sense, but "Heck this interface" seems better.
"Don't touch my hecking code", "What the heck were they thinking?"
etc... "hug" is odd.

Better yet, since it's only 17 files, how about doing context-specific
changes? "This API is terrible", "Hateful interface", "Don't touch my
freakin' code", "What in the world were they thinking?" etc?

-Kees

>
> Jarkko Sakkinen (15):
>   MIPS: replace **** with a hug
>   Documentation: replace **** with a hug
>   drm/nouveau: replace **** with a hug
>   m68k: replace **** with a hug
>   parisc: replace **** with a hug
>   cpufreq: replace **** with a hug
>   ide: replace **** with a hug
>   media: replace **** with a hug
>   mtd: replace **** with a hug
>   net/sunhme: replace **** with a hug
>   scsi: replace **** with a hug
>   inotify: replace **** with a hug
>   irq: replace **** with a hug
>   lib: replace **** with a hug
>   net: replace **** with a hug
>
>  Documentation/kernel-hacking/locking.rst      |  2 +-
>  arch/m68k/include/asm/sun3ints.h              |  2 +-
>  arch/mips/pci/ops-bridge.c                    | 24 +++++++++----------
>  arch/mips/sgi-ip22/ip22-setup.c               |  2 +-
>  arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c               |  2 +-
>  drivers/cpufreq/powernow-k7.c                 |  2 +-
>  .../gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/bios/init.c   |  2 +-
>  .../nouveau/nvkm/subdev/pmu/fuc/macros.fuc    |  2 +-
>  drivers/ide/cmd640.c                          |  2 +-
>  drivers/media/i2c/bt819.c                     |  8 ++++---
>  drivers/mtd/mtd_blkdevs.c                     |  2 +-
>  drivers/net/ethernet/sun/sunhme.c             |  4 ++--
>  drivers/scsi/qlogicpti.h                      |  2 +-
>  fs/notify/inotify/inotify_user.c              |  2 +-
>  kernel/irq/timings.c                          |  2 +-
>  lib/vsprintf.c                                |  2 +-
>  net/core/skbuff.c                             |  2 +-
>  17 files changed, 33 insertions(+), 31 deletions(-)
>
> --
> 2.19.1
>


-- 
Kees Cook

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3 Kees Cook
@ 2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
  2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
                       ` (2 more replies)
  2018-11-30 20:09   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 3 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Davidlohr Bueso @ 2018-11-30 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kees Cook
  Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:

>On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
><jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.

I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
technical comments? This is all beyond me...

Thanks,
Davidlohr

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3 Kees Cook
  2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
@ 2018-11-30 20:09   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
  2018-11-30 21:32     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 20:31   ` Matthias Brugger
  2018-11-30 21:07   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz @ 2018-11-30 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kees Cook, Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On 11/30/18 8:40 PM, Kees Cook wrote:
> Better yet, since it's only 17 files, how about doing context-specific
> changes? "This API is terrible", "Hateful interface", "Don't touch my
> freakin' code", "What in the world were they thinking?" etc?
Or just leave it as is because we're all grown up and don't freak out
when a piece of text contains the word "fuck".

I still don't understand why people think that the word "fuck" is what
would keep certain groups from contributing to the Linux kernel. In all
seriousness, it doesn't.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
@ 2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
  2018-11-30 20:34       ` Michael Schmitz
  2018-11-30 20:35       ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 20:34     ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2018-11-30 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook
  Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On 11/30/18 12:56 PM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
>> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> 
> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
> technical comments? This is all beyond me...

Agree, this is insanity.

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3 Kees Cook
  2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
  2018-11-30 20:09   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
@ 2018-11-30 20:31   ` Matthias Brugger
  2018-11-30 21:34     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:07   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: Matthias Brugger @ 2018-11-30 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kees Cook, Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, Network Development,
	nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton, Petr Mladek, Rob Herring,
	sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio,
	Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding, makita.toshiaki,
	Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu



On 30/11/2018 20:40, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> 
> Heh. I support the replacement of the stronger language, but I find
> "hug", "hugged", and "hugging" to be very weird replacements. Can we
> bikeshed this to "heck", "hecked", and "hecking" (or "heckin" to
> follow true Doggo meme style).
> 
> "This API is hugged" doesn't make any sense to me. "This API is
> hecked" is better, or at least funnier (to me). "Hug this interface"
> similarly makes no sense, but "Heck this interface" seems better.
> "Don't touch my hecking code", "What the heck were they thinking?"
> etc... "hug" is odd.
> 

Like John I don't think that the word "fuck" is something we have to ban from
the source code, but I don't care too much. Anyway, please don't change it to
something like heck as it might be difficult for non-english speaker to understand.

Regards,
Matthias

> Better yet, since it's only 17 files, how about doing context-specific
> changes? "This API is terrible", "Hateful interface", "Don't touch my
> freakin' code", "What in the world were they thinking?" etc?
> 
> -Kees
> 
>>
>> Jarkko Sakkinen (15):
>>   MIPS: replace **** with a hug
>>   Documentation: replace **** with a hug
>>   drm/nouveau: replace **** with a hug
>>   m68k: replace **** with a hug
>>   parisc: replace **** with a hug
>>   cpufreq: replace **** with a hug
>>   ide: replace **** with a hug
>>   media: replace **** with a hug
>>   mtd: replace **** with a hug
>>   net/sunhme: replace **** with a hug
>>   scsi: replace **** with a hug
>>   inotify: replace **** with a hug
>>   irq: replace **** with a hug
>>   lib: replace **** with a hug
>>   net: replace **** with a hug
>>
>>  Documentation/kernel-hacking/locking.rst      |  2 +-
>>  arch/m68k/include/asm/sun3ints.h              |  2 +-
>>  arch/mips/pci/ops-bridge.c                    | 24 +++++++++----------
>>  arch/mips/sgi-ip22/ip22-setup.c               |  2 +-
>>  arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c               |  2 +-
>>  drivers/cpufreq/powernow-k7.c                 |  2 +-
>>  .../gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/bios/init.c   |  2 +-
>>  .../nouveau/nvkm/subdev/pmu/fuc/macros.fuc    |  2 +-
>>  drivers/ide/cmd640.c                          |  2 +-
>>  drivers/media/i2c/bt819.c                     |  8 ++++---
>>  drivers/mtd/mtd_blkdevs.c                     |  2 +-
>>  drivers/net/ethernet/sun/sunhme.c             |  4 ++--
>>  drivers/scsi/qlogicpti.h                      |  2 +-
>>  fs/notify/inotify/inotify_user.c              |  2 +-
>>  kernel/irq/timings.c                          |  2 +-
>>  lib/vsprintf.c                                |  2 +-
>>  net/core/skbuff.c                             |  2 +-
>>  17 files changed, 33 insertions(+), 31 deletions(-)
>>
>> --
>> 2.19.1
>>
> 
> 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
  2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
@ 2018-11-30 20:34     ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: David Miller @ 2018-11-30 20:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: dave
  Cc: keescook, jarkko.sakkinen, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm,
	andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

From: Davidlohr Bueso <dave@stgolabs.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 11:56:52 -0800

> I hope this is some kind of joke.

Whether or not it is a joke, it is censorship.

And because of that I have no intention to apply any patches like this
to any code I am in charge of.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
@ 2018-11-30 20:34       ` Michael Schmitz
  2018-11-30 20:35       ` David Miller
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Michael Schmitz @ 2018-11-30 20:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook
  Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

Am 01.12.2018 um 09:12 schrieb Jens Axboe:
> On 11/30/18 12:56 PM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
>>> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
>>
>> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
>> technical comments? This is all beyond me...
>
> Agree, this is insanity.

Irony? Parody?

That's what crossed my mind, to be brutally honest. Group hug, anyone?

For the VME vectors case: no need to hug, just don't mess with them.

Cheers,

	Michael

(Waiting for Adrian's ticket machines to swoop down and take me out now 
... in 24 hours ...)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
  2018-11-30 20:34       ` Michael Schmitz
@ 2018-11-30 20:35       ` David Miller
       [not found]         ` <2007856.n5V9iKLVsV@eth7>
  2018-11-30 21:42         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: David Miller @ 2018-11-30 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: axboe
  Cc: dave, keescook, jarkko.sakkinen, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm,
	andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

From: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:12:26 -0700

> On 11/30/18 12:56 PM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
>>> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
>> 
>> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
>> technical comments? This is all beyond me...
> 
> Agree, this is insanity.

And even worse it is censorship.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
       [not found]         ` <2007856.n5V9iKLVsV@eth7>
@ 2018-11-30 20:42           ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 20:43           ` Steven Rostedt
  2018-12-01  4:08           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: David Miller @ 2018-11-30 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: abuse
  Cc: axboe, dave, keescook, jarkko.sakkinen, linux-kernel, amir73il,
	akpm, andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

From: Abuse <abuse@2.abuse.bgcomp.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 20:39:01 +0000

> I assume I will now be barred.

Perhaps, but not because you said fuck.  It would be because you're
intentionally creating a disturbance on the list and making it more
difficult for developers to get their work done and intentionally
creating a distraction and a hostile environment for the discussion at
hand.

That would not be censorship.

There is a big difference.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
       [not found]         ` <2007856.n5V9iKLVsV@eth7>
  2018-11-30 20:42           ` David Miller
@ 2018-11-30 20:43           ` Steven Rostedt
  2018-12-01  4:08           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Steven Rostedt @ 2018-11-30 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Abuse
  Cc: David Miller, axboe, dave, keescook, jarkko.sakkinen,
	linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm, andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux,
	dri-devel, edumazet, federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller,
	corbet, kumba, linux-doc, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	linux-media, linux-mips, linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm,
	linux-scsi, matthias.bgg, netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton,
	pmladek, robh, sean.wang, sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson,
	sbrivio, me, makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 20:39:01 +0000
Abuse <abuse@2.abuse.bgcomp.co.uk> wrote:

> On Friday, 30 November 2018 20:35:07 GMT David Miller wrote:
> > From: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:12:26 -0700
> >   
> > > On 11/30/18 12:56 PM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:  
> > >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> > >>   
> > >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> > >>> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:  
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.  
> > >> 
> > >> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
> > >> technical comments? This is all beyond me...  
> > > 
> > > Agree, this is insanity.  
> > 
> > And even worse it is censorship.
> >   
> 
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> Hug
> 
> I assume I will now be barred.
> 

-- Steve


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
  2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
  2018-11-30 20:34     ` David Miller
@ 2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:01       ` James Bottomley
                         ` (2 more replies)
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Davidlohr Bueso
  Cc: Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:56:52AM -0800, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> > <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> 
> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
> technical comments? This is all beyond me...

Well... Not a joke really but more like conversation starter :-)

I had 10h flight from Amsterdam to Portland and one of the things that I
did was to read the new CoC properly.

This a direct quote from the CoC:

"Harassment includes the use of abusive, offensive or degrading
language, intimidation, stalking, harassing photography or recording,
inappropriate physical contact, sexual imagery and unwelcome sexual
advances or requests for sexual favors."

Doesn't this fall into this category?

Your argument is not that great because you could say that from any LKML
discussion. If you don't like hugging, please propose something else :-)

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 21:01       ` James Bottomley
  2018-11-30 21:44         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:02       ` Steven Rostedt
  2018-11-30 21:04       ` Jonathan Corbet
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2018-11-30 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen, Davidlohr Bueso
  Cc: Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 12:55 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:56:52AM -0800, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> > > <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> > 
> > I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by
> > reading technical comments? This is all beyond me...
> 
> Well... Not a joke really but more like conversation starter :-)
> 
> I had 10h flight from Amsterdam to Portland and one of the things
> that I did was to read the new CoC properly.
> 
> This a direct quote from the CoC:
> 
> "Harassment includes the use of abusive, offensive or degrading
> language, intimidation, stalking, harassing photography or recording,
> inappropriate physical contact, sexual imagery and unwelcome sexual
> advances or requests for sexual favors."
> 
> Doesn't this fall into this category?

No because use of what some people consider to be bad language isn't
necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most heavily censored
medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered acceptable in certain
contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.

> Your argument is not that great because you could say that from any
> LKML discussion. If you don't like hugging, please propose something
> else
> :-)

The interpretation document also says this:

   ontributions submitted for the kernel should use appropriate
   language. Content that already exists predating the Code of Conduct
   will not be addressed now as a violation.

So that definitely means there should be no hunting down of existing
comments in kernel code.

James


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:01       ` James Bottomley
@ 2018-11-30 21:02       ` Steven Rostedt
  2018-11-30 21:04       ` Jonathan Corbet
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Steven Rostedt @ 2018-11-30 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 12:55:21 -0800
Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:56:52AM -0800, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> >   
> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> > > <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:  
> > > > 
> > > > In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.  
> > 
> > I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
> > technical comments? This is all beyond me...  
> 
> Well... Not a joke really but more like conversation starter :-)
> 
> I had 10h flight from Amsterdam to Portland and one of the things that I
> did was to read the new CoC properly.
> 
> This a direct quote from the CoC:
> 
> "Harassment includes the use of abusive, offensive or degrading
> language, intimidation, stalking, harassing photography or recording,
> inappropriate physical contact, sexual imagery and unwelcome sexual
> advances or requests for sexual favors."
> 
> Doesn't this fall into this category?
>

It has also been discussed that existing code (and past conduct) will
not be covered under the CoC. It's about new code and conduct moving
forward.

-- Steve

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:01       ` James Bottomley
  2018-11-30 21:02       ` Steven Rostedt
@ 2018-11-30 21:04       ` Jonathan Corbet
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Corbet @ 2018-11-30 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 12:55:21 -0800
Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:

> This a direct quote from the CoC:
> 
> "Harassment includes the use of abusive, offensive or degrading
> language, intimidation, stalking, harassing photography or recording,
> inappropriate physical contact, sexual imagery and unwelcome sexual
> advances or requests for sexual favors."

...and this is from the interpretation document:

> Contributions submitted for the kernel should use appropriate language.
> Content that already exists predating the Code of Conduct will not be
> addressed now as a violation.

So existing code is explicitly not a CoC violation and need not be
treated as such.  That said, improvements to the comments are always
welcome, as long as they are actually improvements.

Thanks,

jon

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3 Kees Cook
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2018-11-30 20:31   ` Matthias Brugger
@ 2018-11-30 21:07   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kees Cook
  Cc: LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:40:17AM -0800, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> >
> > In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> 
> Heh. I support the replacement of the stronger language, but I find
> "hug", "hugged", and "hugging" to be very weird replacements. Can we
> bikeshed this to "heck", "hecked", and "hecking" (or "heckin" to
> follow true Doggo meme style).
> 
> "This API is hugged" doesn't make any sense to me. "This API is
> hecked" is better, or at least funnier (to me). "Hug this interface"
> similarly makes no sense, but "Heck this interface" seems better.
> "Don't touch my hecking code", "What the heck were they thinking?"
> etc... "hug" is odd.
> 
> Better yet, since it's only 17 files, how about doing context-specific
> changes? "This API is terrible", "Hateful interface", "Don't touch my
> freakin' code", "What in the world were they thinking?" etc?

I'm happy to refine this (thus the RFC tag)! And depending on the
culture, hugging could fall in the harrasment category. Actually, when I
think about it, in Finland this kind of poking of ones personal bubble
would be such :-)

I'll refine the patch set with more context sensitive replacements,
perhaps removing the comment altogether in some places. Thank you for
the feedback!

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:09   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
@ 2018-11-30 21:32     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
  Cc: Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 09:09:48PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Or just leave it as is because we're all grown up and don't freak out
> when a piece of text contains the word "fuck".
> 
> I still don't understand why people think that the word "fuck" is what
> would keep certain groups from contributing to the Linux kernel. In all
> seriousness, it doesn't.

Are you making a claim that your personal experience, and maybe your
mates, is the objective truth, or am I misunderstanding something?

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:31   ` Matthias Brugger
@ 2018-11-30 21:34     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matthias Brugger
  Cc: Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko,
	Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski,
	Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, Network Development,
	nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton, Petr Mladek, Rob Herring,
	sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio,
	Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding, makita.toshiaki,
	Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 09:31:13PM +0100, Matthias Brugger wrote:
> Like John I don't think that the word "fuck" is something we have to ban from
> the source code, but I don't care too much. Anyway, please don't change it to
> something like heck as it might be difficult for non-english speaker to understand.

I make context sensitive better thought updates based on the feedback
that Kees gave. I used RFC tag for a reason.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 20:35       ` David Miller
       [not found]         ` <2007856.n5V9iKLVsV@eth7>
@ 2018-11-30 21:42         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:47           ` David Miller
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David Miller
  Cc: axboe, dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm,
	andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:35:07PM -0800, David Miller wrote:
> From: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:12:26 -0700
> 
> > On 11/30/18 12:56 PM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
> >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> >>> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> >> 
> >> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
> >> technical comments? This is all beyond me...
> > 
> > Agree, this is insanity.
> 
> And even worse it is censorship.

It is not close to a cencorship, especially when I used RFC tag, which
essentially says that I'm not saying "please take this", right?

Can you tell how the CoC should be interpreted then? I read it through
on my plane trip with an eye glass.

Is cursing OK?

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:01       ` James Bottomley
@ 2018-11-30 21:44         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:48           ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 21:57           ` James Bottomley
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: James Bottomley
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:01:02PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> No because use of what some people consider to be bad language isn't
> necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most heavily censored
> medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered acceptable in certain
> contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.

This makes following the CoC extremely hard to a non-native speaker as
it is not too explicit on what is OK and what is not. I did through the
whole thing with an eye glass and this what I deduced from it.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:42         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 21:47           ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 21:53             ` Jens Axboe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: David Miller @ 2018-11-30 21:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jarkko.sakkinen
  Cc: axboe, dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm,
	andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:42:33 -0800

> Can you tell how the CoC should be interpreted then?

Regardless of what I think, as others have showen the CoC explicitly
does not apply to existing code.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:44         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 21:48           ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 21:54             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:57           ` James Bottomley
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: David Miller @ 2018-11-30 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jarkko.sakkinen
  Cc: James.Bottomley, dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm,
	andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:44:05 -0800

> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:01:02PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
>> No because use of what some people consider to be bad language isn't
>> necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most heavily censored
>> medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered acceptable in certain
>> contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.
> 
> This makes following the CoC extremely hard to a non-native speaker as
> it is not too explicit on what is OK and what is not. I did through the
> whole thing with an eye glass and this what I deduced from it.

It would be helpful if you could explain what part of the language
is unclear wrt. explaining how CoC does not apply to existing code.

That part seems very explicit to me.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:47           ` David Miller
@ 2018-11-30 21:53             ` Jens Axboe
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2018-11-30 21:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David Miller, jarkko.sakkinen
  Cc: dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm, andriy.shevchenko,
	dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet, federico.vaga, geert+renesas,
	deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips, linux-mtd, linux-parisc,
	linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg, netdev, nouveau, pabeni,
	paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang, sergey.senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me, makita.toshiaki, willemb,
	yhs, yanjun.zhu

On 11/30/18 2:47 PM, David Miller wrote:
> From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:42:33 -0800
> 
>> Can you tell how the CoC should be interpreted then?
> 
> Regardless of what I think, as others have showen the CoC explicitly
> does not apply to existing code.

And with that, can we please put an end to this thread (and patchset)?

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:48           ` David Miller
@ 2018-11-30 21:54             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:04               ` James Bottomley
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 21:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David Miller
  Cc: James.Bottomley, dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm,
	andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:48:08PM -0800, David Miller wrote:
> From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:44:05 -0800
> 
> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:01:02PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> >> No because use of what some people consider to be bad language isn't
> >> necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most heavily censored
> >> medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered acceptable in certain
> >> contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.
> > 
> > This makes following the CoC extremely hard to a non-native speaker as
> > it is not too explicit on what is OK and what is not. I did through the
> > whole thing with an eye glass and this what I deduced from it.
> 
> It would be helpful if you could explain what part of the language
> is unclear wrt. explaining how CoC does not apply to existing code.
> 
> That part seems very explicit to me.

Well, now that I re-read it, it was this part to be exact:

"Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or
reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other
contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban
temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they
deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful."

How this should be interpreted?

I have not really followed the previous CoC discussions as I try to
always use polite language so I'm sorry if this duplicate.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:44         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 21:48           ` David Miller
@ 2018-11-30 21:57           ` James Bottomley
  2018-11-30 22:12             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2018-11-30 21:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 13:44 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:01:02PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> > No because use of what some people consider to be bad language
> > isn't necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most
> > heavily censored medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered
> > acceptable in certain contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.
> 
> This makes following the CoC extremely hard to a non-native speaker
> as it is not too explicit on what is OK and what is not. I did
> through the whole thing with an eye glass and this what I deduced
> from it.

OK, so something that would simply be considered in some quarters as
bad language isn't explicitly banned.  The thing which differentiates
simple bad language from "abusive, offensive or degrading language",
which is called out by the CoC, is the context and the target.

So when it's a simple expletive or the code of the author or even the
hardware is the target, I'd say it's an easy determination it's not a
CoC violation.  If someone else's code is the target or the inventor of
the hardware is targetted by name, I'd say it is.  Even non-native
English speakers should be able to determine target and context,
because that's the essence of meaning.

James


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:54             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 22:04               ` James Bottomley
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2018-11-30 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen, David Miller
  Cc: dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il, akpm, andriy.shevchenko,
	dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet, federico.vaga, geert+renesas,
	deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips, linux-mtd, linux-parisc,
	linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg, netdev, nouveau, pabeni,
	paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang, sergey.senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me, makita.toshiaki, willemb,
	yhs, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 13:54 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:48:08PM -0800, David Miller wrote:
> > From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:44:05 -0800
> > 
> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:01:02PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > > No because use of what some people consider to be bad language
> > > > isn't
> > > > necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most heavily
> > > > censored
> > > > medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered acceptable in certain
> > > > contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.
> > > 
> > > This makes following the CoC extremely hard to a non-native
> > > speaker as
> > > it is not too explicit on what is OK and what is not. I did
> > > through the
> > > whole thing with an eye glass and this what I deduced from it.
> > 
> > It would be helpful if you could explain what part of the language
> > is unclear wrt. explaining how CoC does not apply to existing code.
> > 
> > That part seems very explicit to me.
> 
> Well, now that I re-read it, it was this part to be exact:
> 
> "Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or
> reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other
> contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban
> temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that
> they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful."
> 
> How this should be interpreted?

Firstly, this is *only* about contributions going forward.  The
interpretation document says we don't have to look back into the
repository and we definitely can't remove something from git that's
already been committed.

As a Maintainer, if you feel bad language is inappropriate for your
subsystem then you say so and reject with that reason patches that come
in containing it (suggesting alternative rewordings).  However, your
determination about what is or isn't acceptable in your subsystem isn't
binding on other maintainers, who may have different standards ... this
is identical to what we do with coding, like your insistence on one
line per variable or other subsystem's insistence on reverse christmas
tree for includes ...

James


> I have not really followed the previous CoC discussions as I try to
> always use polite language so I'm sorry if this duplicate.
> 
> /Jarkko
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 21:57           ` James Bottomley
@ 2018-11-30 22:12             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:14               ` Jonathan Corbet
  2018-11-30 22:26               ` James Bottomley
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: James Bottomley
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:57:49PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 13:44 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 01:01:02PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > No because use of what some people consider to be bad language
> > > isn't necessarily abusive, offensive or degrading.  Our most
> > > heavily censored medium is TV and "fuck" is now considered
> > > acceptable in certain contexts on most channels in the UK and EU.
> > 
> > This makes following the CoC extremely hard to a non-native speaker
> > as it is not too explicit on what is OK and what is not. I did
> > through the whole thing with an eye glass and this what I deduced
> > from it.
> 
> OK, so something that would simply be considered in some quarters as
> bad language isn't explicitly banned.  The thing which differentiates
> simple bad language from "abusive, offensive or degrading language",
> which is called out by the CoC, is the context and the target.
> 
> So when it's a simple expletive or the code of the author or even the
> hardware is the target, I'd say it's an easy determination it's not a
> CoC violation.  If someone else's code is the target or the inventor of
> the hardware is targetted by name, I'd say it is.  Even non-native
> English speakers should be able to determine target and context,
> because that's the essence of meaning.

I pasted this already to another response and this was probably the part
that ignited me to send the patch set (was a few days ago, so had to
revisit to find the exact paragraph):

"Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or
reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other
contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban
temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they
deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful."

The whole patch set is neither a joke/troll nor something I would
necessarily want to be include myself. It does have the RFC tag.

As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows what
the responsibility part here means.

I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even for
existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.

Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a mistake
by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it *actually* says?
After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than before.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:12             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 22:14               ` Jonathan Corbet
  2018-11-30 22:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-12-01  8:20                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
  2018-11-30 22:26               ` James Bottomley
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Corbet @ 2018-11-30 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: James Bottomley, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML,
	Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens,
	David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers,
	Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 14:12:19 -0800
Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:

> As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
> other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows what
> the responsibility part here means.
> 
> I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even for
> existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.
> 
> Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a mistake
> by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it *actually* says?
> After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than before.

Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-interpretation.rst?
As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things should
be interpreted here.

Thanks,

jon

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:14               ` Jonathan Corbet
@ 2018-11-30 22:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:29                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:30                   ` James Bottomley
  2018-12-01  8:20                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Corbet
  Cc: James Bottomley, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML,
	Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens,
	David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers,
	Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 03:14:59PM -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 14:12:19 -0800
> Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> 
> > As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
> > other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows what
> > the responsibility part here means.
> > 
> > I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even for
> > existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.
> > 
> > Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a mistake
> > by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it *actually* says?
> > After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than before.
> 
> Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-interpretation.rst?
> As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things should
> be interpreted here.

Ugh, was not aware that there two documents.

Yeah, definitely sheds light. Why the documents could not be merged to
single common sense code of conduct?

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:12             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:14               ` Jonathan Corbet
@ 2018-11-30 22:26               ` James Bottomley
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2018-11-30 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Jonathan Corbet,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 14:12 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
[...]
> I pasted this already to another response and this was probably the
> part that ignited me to send the patch set (was a few days ago, so
> had to revisit to find the exact paragraph):

I replied in to the other thread.

> "Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or
> reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other
> contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban
> temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that
> they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful."
> 
> The whole patch set is neither a joke/troll nor something I would
> necessarily want to be include myself. It does have the RFC tag.
> 
> As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
> other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows
> what the responsibility part here means.
> 
> I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even
> for existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.

That's wrong in the light of the interpretation document, yes.

> Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a
> mistake by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it
> *actually* says?

You can't read it in isolation, you need to read it along with the
interpretation document.  The latter was created precisely because
there was a lot of push back on interpretation problems and ambiguities
with the original CoC and it specifically covers this case (and a lot
of others).

James


> After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than
> before.
> 
> /Jarkko
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 22:29                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:30                   ` James Bottomley
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 22:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Corbet
  Cc: James Bottomley, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML,
	Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens,
	David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers,
	Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 02:26:05PM -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 03:14:59PM -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 14:12:19 -0800
> > Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
> > > other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows what
> > > the responsibility part here means.
> > > 
> > > I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even for
> > > existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.
> > > 
> > > Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a mistake
> > > by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it *actually* says?
> > > After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than before.
> > 
> > Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-interpretation.rst?
> > As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things should
> > be interpreted here.
> 
> Ugh, was not aware that there two documents.
> 
> Yeah, definitely sheds light. Why the documents could not be merged to
> single common sense code of conduct?

I.e. if the latter that you pointed out tells you what you actually
should do what value does the former bring?

Just looked up archives and realized that there has been whole alot
of CoC related discussions. No wonder this is seen as waste of time.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:29                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 22:30                   ` James Bottomley
  2018-11-30 22:40                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2018-11-30 22:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen, Jonathan Corbet
  Cc: Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML, Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers, Eric Dumazet,
	federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List, Linux mtd,
	linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 14:26 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 03:14:59PM -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
[...]
> > Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-
> > interpretation.rst? 
> > As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things
> > should be interpreted here.
> 
> Ugh, was not aware that there two documents.
> 
> Yeah, definitely sheds light. Why the documents could not be merged
> to single common sense code of conduct?

The fact that we've arrived at essentially an original CoC
reinterpreted to the point where it's effectively a new CoC has been
the source of much debate and recrimination over the last few months
... you can read it in the ksummit-discuss archives, but I really think
we don't want to reopen that can of worms.

James



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:30                   ` James Bottomley
@ 2018-11-30 22:40                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 23:28                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 22:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: James Bottomley
  Cc: Jonathan Corbet, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML,
	Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens,
	David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers,
	Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 02:30:45PM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-11-30 at 14:26 -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 03:14:59PM -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> [...]
> > > Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-
> > > interpretation.rst? 
> > > As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things
> > > should be interpreted here.
> > 
> > Ugh, was not aware that there two documents.
> > 
> > Yeah, definitely sheds light. Why the documents could not be merged
> > to single common sense code of conduct?
> 
> The fact that we've arrived at essentially an original CoC
> reinterpreted to the point where it's effectively a new CoC has been
> the source of much debate and recrimination over the last few months
> ... you can read it in the ksummit-discuss archives, but I really think
> we don't want to reopen that can of worms.

Got you... Well I now read the 2nd amendment now through, and yeah, kind
of way I work/function anyway.

Thank you for the patience...

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug
  2018-11-30 19:27 ` [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 22:48   ` Dennis Clarke
  2018-11-30 23:03     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 23:05   ` Diego Viola
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Clarke @ 2018-11-30 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jarkko Sakkinen, linux-kernel
  Cc: James E.J. Bottomley, Helge Deller, Dominik Brodowski, Kees Cook,
	Andrew Morton, linux-parisc, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

On 11/30/18 2:27 PM, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> 

To be honest the source has been full of sh!t and other expressions
for a long long time now. I am sure we all know this and it would
take a pile of effort to clean^H^H^H^Hsanitize and ruin the flavour and
ambiance of the whole damn thing.  Everyone knows this :


c $ find . -type f | xargs grep -ic " shit " | grep -v ":0$" | awk 
'BEGIN{FS=":";print "\nshitlist"}{print $2 " " $1}' | sort -n

shitlist
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/arch/powerpc/kernel/eeh_driver.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/arch/sparc/kernel/pcic.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/arch/sparc/mm/srmmu.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/ata/sata_via.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/infiniband/hw/qib/qib_file_ops.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/net/ethernet/broadcom/bnx2x/bnx2x_link.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/net/ethernet/sun/sunhme.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/net/wan/z85230.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/net/wireless/intel/iwlegacy/3945-mac.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/net/ipv4/tcp_input.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/sound/pci/ac97/ac97_patch.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/sound/pci/cs46xx/dsp_spos_scb_lib.c
c $

c $ find . -type f | xargs grep -ic " piss " | grep -v ":0$" | awk 
'BEGIN{FS=":";print "\npisspot"}{print $2 " " $1}' | sort -n

pisspot
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/Documentation/translations/ja_JP/SubmittingPatches
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/Documentation/translations/zh_CN/SubmittingPatches
c $

c $ grep -in " piss " 
./linux-4.20-rc4/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
817:Greg Kroah-Hartman, "How to piss off a kernel subsystem maintainer".


c $ find . -type f | xargs grep -ic " fuck " | grep -v ":0$" | awk 
'BEGIN{FS=":";print "\nfucked"}{print $2 " " $1}' | sort -n

fucked
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/Documentation/kernel-hacking/locking.rst
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/arch/m68k/include/asm/sun3ints.h
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/pmu/fuc/macros.fuc
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/media/i2c/bt819.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/net/ethernet/sun/sunhme.c
c $


c $ find . -type f | xargs grep -ic " fucked " | grep -v ":0$" | awk 
'BEGIN{FS=":";print "\nreally fucked"}{print $2 " " $1}' | sort -n

really fucked
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/cpufreq/powernow-k7.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/drivers/ide/cmd640.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/fs/notify/inotify/inotify_user.c
1 ./linux-4.20-rc4/lib/vsprintf.c
12 ./linux-4.20-rc4/arch/mips/pci/ops-bridge.c
c $

The finest example of colorful comments is arch/mips/pci/ops-bridge.c:


     54          addr = 
&bridge->b_type0_cfg_dev[slot].f[fn].c[PCI_VENDOR_ID];
     55          if (get_dbe(cf, (u32 *) addr))
     56                  return PCIBIOS_DEVICE_NOT_FOUND;
     57
     58          /*
     59           * IOC3 is fucking fucked beyond belief ...  Don't even 
give the
     60           * generic PCI code a chance to look at it for real ...
     61           */
     62          if (cf == (PCI_VENDOR_ID_SGI | (PCI_DEVICE_ID_SGI_IOC3 
<< 16)))
     63                  goto oh_my_gawd;
     64
.
.
.
     76  oh_my_gawd:
     77
     78          /*
     79           * IOC3 is fucking fucked beyond belief ...  Don't even 
give the
     80           * generic PCI code a chance to look at the wrong register.
     81           */
     82          if ((where >= 0x14 && where < 0x40) || (where >= 0x48)) {
     83                  *value = emulate_ioc3_cfg(where, size);
     84                  return PCIBIOS_SUCCESSFUL;
     85          }
     86
     87          /*
     88           * IOC3 is fucking fucked beyond belief ...  Don't try 
to access
     89           * anything but 32-bit words ...
     90           */
     91          addr = &bridge->b_type0_cfg_dev[slot].f[fn].l[where >> 2];
     92


Ah yes .. I remember the days when IBM bought Lotus and no one could
have a beer in the office anymore.  Everyone that was good walked out.
Let's not do that.

Dennis Clarke


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug
  2018-11-30 22:48   ` Dennis Clarke
@ 2018-11-30 23:03     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 23:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dennis Clarke
  Cc: linux-kernel, James E.J. Bottomley, Helge Deller,
	Dominik Brodowski, Kees Cook, Andrew Morton, linux-parisc,
	John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:48:33PM -0500, Dennis Clarke wrote:
> Ah yes .. I remember the days when IBM bought Lotus and no one could
> have a beer in the office anymore.  Everyone that was good walked out.
> Let's not do that.

Thank you for englightning response. Only today I learned about the 2nd
amendment that overrides the 1st amendment so all is good :-) I hope we
never get 3rd amandment to make this even more confusing...

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug
  2018-11-30 19:27 ` [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug Jarkko Sakkinen
  2018-11-30 22:48   ` Dennis Clarke
@ 2018-11-30 23:05   ` Diego Viola
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Diego Viola @ 2018-11-30 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jarkko.sakkinen
  Cc: linux-kernel, jejb, deller, linux, keescook, akpm, linux-parisc

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 5:30 PM Jarkko Sakkinen
<jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>
> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
>
> Signed-off-by: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
> ---
>  arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c | 2 +-
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
>
> diff --git a/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c b/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c
> index 376ea0d1b275..4782c41f00c8 100644
> --- a/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c
> +++ b/arch/parisc/kernel/sys_parisc.c
> @@ -287,7 +287,7 @@ asmlinkage unsigned long sys_mmap(unsigned long addr, unsigned long len,
>         }
>  }
>
> -/* Fucking broken ABI */
> +/* Hugging broken ABI */
>
>  #ifdef CONFIG_64BIT
>  asmlinkage long parisc_truncate64(const char __user * path,
> --
> 2.19.1
>

What about profanity in commit messages?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:40                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-11-30 23:28                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-11-30 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: James Bottomley
  Cc: Jonathan Corbet, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook, LKML,
	Amir Goldstein, Andrew Morton, Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens,
	David S. Miller, Dominik Brodowski, Maling list - DRI developers,
	Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga, Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller,
	Joshua Kinard, open list:DOCUMENTATION, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide,
	linux-m68k, Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	Linux mtd, linux-parisc, Linux PM list, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	Network Development, nouveau, Paolo Abeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, Yonghong Song, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 02:40:19PM -0800, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote:
> Got you... Well I now read the 2nd amendment now through, and yeah, kind
> of way I work/function anyway.

Ugh, looked up the word from dictionary for something that makes
additions to some guidelines because did not know the english word.
Not meant as a political reference of any kind. Just don't know
any better English word.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
       [not found]         ` <2007856.n5V9iKLVsV@eth7>
  2018-11-30 20:42           ` David Miller
  2018-11-30 20:43           ` Steven Rostedt
@ 2018-12-01  4:08           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Jarkko Sakkinen @ 2018-12-01  4:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Abuse
  Cc: David Miller, axboe, dave, keescook, linux-kernel, amir73il,
	akpm, andriy.shevchenko, dja, linux, dri-devel, edumazet,
	federico.vaga, geert+renesas, deller, corbet, kumba, linux-doc,
	linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k, linux-media, linux-mips,
	linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm, linux-scsi, matthias.bgg,
	netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton, pmladek, robh, sean.wang,
	sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson, sbrivio, rostedt, me,
	makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 08:39:01PM +0000, Abuse wrote:
> On Friday, 30 November 2018 20:35:07 GMT David Miller wrote:
> > From: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 13:12:26 -0700
> > 
> > > On 11/30/18 12:56 PM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018, Kees Cook wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:27 AM Jarkko Sakkinen
> > >>> <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In order to comply with the CoC, replace **** with a hug.
> > >> 
> > >> I hope this is some kind of joke. How would anyone get offended by reading
> > >> technical comments? This is all beyond me...
> > > 
> > > Agree, this is insanity.
> > 
> > And even worse it is censorship.
> > 
> 
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> Fuck
> 
> I assume I will now be barred.
> 
> 

Thank you for taking the opportunity to practice free speech in the
always so welcoming and inclusive on-line world :-) Now I'll just have
to find my notebook and write this prose down so that I'll never forget
it. Thanks again.

/Jarkko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-11-30 22:14               ` Jonathan Corbet
  2018-11-30 22:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
@ 2018-12-01  8:20                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
  2018-12-07 13:39                   ` Eric Curtin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 40+ messages in thread
From: Geert Uytterhoeven @ 2018-12-01  8:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Corbet
  Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen, James Bottomley, Davidlohr Bueso, Kees Cook,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List, amir73il, Andrew Morton,
	Andy Shevchenko, Daniel Axtens, David S. Miller,
	Dominik Brodowski, DRI Development, Eric Dumazet, federico.vaga,
	Geert Uytterhoeven, Helge Deller, Joshua Kinard,
	open list:DOCUMENTATION, Linux FS Devel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	Linux Media Mailing List, Linux MIPS Mailing List,
	MTD Maling List, Parisc List, Linux PM list, scsi,
	Matthias Brugger, netdev, nouveau, pabeni, Paul Burton,
	Petr Mladek, Rob Herring, sean.wang, Sergey Senozhatsky,
	shannon.nelson, Stefano Brivio, Steven Rostedt, Tobin C. Harding,
	makita.toshiaki, Willem de Bruijn, yhs, yanjun.zhu

Hi Jon,

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:15 PM Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 14:12:19 -0800
> Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>
> > As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
> > other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows what
> > the responsibility part here means.
> >
> > I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even for
> > existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.
> >
> > Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a mistake
> > by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it *actually* says?
> > After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than before.
>
> Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-interpretation.rst?
> As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things should
> be interpreted here.

Indeed:

| Contributions submitted for the kernel should use appropriate language.
| Content that already exists predating the Code of Conduct will not be
| addressed now as a violation.

However:

| Inappropriate language can be seen as a
| bug, though; such bugs will be fixed more quickly if any interested
| parties submit patches to that effect.

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

-- 
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3
  2018-12-01  8:20                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
@ 2018-12-07 13:39                   ` Eric Curtin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 40+ messages in thread
From: Eric Curtin @ 2018-12-07 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: geert
  Cc: corbet, jarkko.sakkinen, James.Bottomley, dave, keescook,
	Kernel development list, amir73il, akpm, andriy.shevchenko, dja,
	davem, linux, dri-devel, edumazet, federico.vaga, geert+renesas,
	deller, kumba, linux-doc, linux-fsdevel, linux-ide, linux-m68k,
	linux-media, linux-mips, linux-mtd, linux-parisc, linux-pm,
	linux-scsi, matthias.bgg, netdev, nouveau, pabeni, paul.burton,
	pmladek, robh, sean.wang, sergey.senozhatsky, shannon.nelson,
	sbrivio, rostedt, me, makita.toshiaki, willemb, yhs, yanjun.zhu

Hi Guys,

I initially thought these patches were a joke. But I guess they are
not. I suppose 2018 is the year everything became offensive.

Could we avoid the s/fuck/hug/g though? I have nothing against
re-wording this stuff to remove the curse word, but it should at least
make sense.

What's going to happen is someone is a newbie is going to see a comment
like "We found an mark in the idr at the right wd, but it's not the
mark we were told to remove. eparis seriously hugged up somewhere",
probably google the term as they are unfamiliar with it, find out it's
an alias for "fucked" and if they are sensitive get offended anyway.

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 08:20, Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 11:15 PM Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net> wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 14:12:19 -0800
> > Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> >
> > > As a maintainer myself (and based on somewhat disturbed feedback from
> > > other maintainers) I can only make the conclusion that nobody knows what
> > > the responsibility part here means.
> > >
> > > I would interpret, if I read it like at lawyer at least, that even for
> > > existing code you would need to do the changes postmorterm.
> > >
> > > Is this wrong interpretation?  Should I conclude that I made a mistake
> > > by reading the CoC and trying to understand what it *actually* says?
> > > After this discussion, I can say that I understand it less than before.
> >
> > Have you read Documentation/process/code-of-conduct-interpretation.rst?
> > As has been pointed out, it contains a clear answer to how things should
> > be interpreted here.
>
> Indeed:
>
> | Contributions submitted for the kernel should use appropriate language.
> | Content that already exists predating the Code of Conduct will not be
> | addressed now as a violation.
>
> However:
>
> | Inappropriate language can be seen as a
> | bug, though; such bugs will be fixed more quickly if any interested
> | parties submit patches to that effect.
>
> Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
>
>                         Geert
>
> --
> Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org
>
> In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
> when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
>                                 -- Linus Torvalds

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 40+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 40+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <20181130192737.15053-1-jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
2018-11-30 19:27 ` [PATCH RFC 05/15] parisc: replace **** with a hug Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 22:48   ` Dennis Clarke
2018-11-30 23:03     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 23:05   ` Diego Viola
2018-11-30 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 00/15] Zero ****s, hugload of hugs <3 Kees Cook
2018-11-30 19:56   ` Davidlohr Bueso
2018-11-30 20:12     ` Jens Axboe
2018-11-30 20:34       ` Michael Schmitz
2018-11-30 20:35       ` David Miller
     [not found]         ` <2007856.n5V9iKLVsV@eth7>
2018-11-30 20:42           ` David Miller
2018-11-30 20:43           ` Steven Rostedt
2018-12-01  4:08           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 21:42         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 21:47           ` David Miller
2018-11-30 21:53             ` Jens Axboe
2018-11-30 20:34     ` David Miller
2018-11-30 20:55     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 21:01       ` James Bottomley
2018-11-30 21:44         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 21:48           ` David Miller
2018-11-30 21:54             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 22:04               ` James Bottomley
2018-11-30 21:57           ` James Bottomley
2018-11-30 22:12             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 22:14               ` Jonathan Corbet
2018-11-30 22:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 22:29                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 22:30                   ` James Bottomley
2018-11-30 22:40                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 23:28                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-01  8:20                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-12-07 13:39                   ` Eric Curtin
2018-11-30 22:26               ` James Bottomley
2018-11-30 21:02       ` Steven Rostedt
2018-11-30 21:04       ` Jonathan Corbet
2018-11-30 20:09   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2018-11-30 21:32     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 20:31   ` Matthias Brugger
2018-11-30 21:34     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-30 21:07   ` Jarkko Sakkinen

Linux-parisc archive on lore.kernel.org

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