From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E25C433E0 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 18:35:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B97C64F1B for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 18:35:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230442AbhCRSfK (ORCPT ); Thu, 18 Mar 2021 14:35:10 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:54519 "EHLO mout.kundenserver.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S232474AbhCRSfH (ORCPT ); Thu, 18 Mar 2021 14:35:07 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.155] ([77.4.36.33]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M42Ss-1lMxU11GeO-0007h2; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:34:57 +0100 Subject: Re: [PATCH 4/4] PCI/sysfs: Allow userspace to query and set device reset mechanism To: Leon Romanovsky , Alex Williamson Cc: Amey Narkhede , raphael.norwitz@nutanix.com, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, bhelgaas@google.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, alay.shah@nutanix.com, suresh.gumpula@nutanix.com, shyam.rajendran@nutanix.com, felipe@nutanix.com References: <20210317102447.73no7mhox75xetlf@archlinux> <20210317112309.nborigwfd26px2mj@archlinux> <20210317131718.3uz7zxnvoofpunng@archlinux> <20210317113140.3de56d6c@omen.home.shazbot.org> <20210318103935.2ec32302@omen.home.shazbot.org> From: "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:34:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: tl Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:iywlJkpEFuxNE/Ve6FtQn70Tv1GKx5OB/MLu/Wy84sZPqnA43sn 12syIC+nmB61lPzHc+9NFDntPxP6RYhT4aqjusTif341gD2PMiEy94bMXzfF8tPpPztEGDt SH3kOvoO+oxdRP4qDN5Rom2pRDeOBfRpisU9Eefw/SLdcYJ5oevNYj4XbeaIIDzAIYGcaLb eNLYM6wcN6w2/FBy/l3Gw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:E/WAgxaRGZ4=:kTlG8ndNRYWqorilUkQbSJ blx0MMl0Hl1bzNdh/OEg+HOich4a9SIRNVFuQVHIqC2KBdq/Y8kHTLVV2356JwHPEfkTIyQjB c3Tvzjf/Npf1oaw/YMbGebr64DEezhCo1MuHz8gmmZhrlIjwzcAmjON4nUv2KLQ4g/l39vJ8V c34ELhpoho4FYDb3g5IHLJnK3JXYKvB9AG2CSrkN/n/UWaVFlflOyRsxTAJhzwG+2+wKAwec0 kRi3HqI1XIF5YF6B+Xid0sjlYs7q6RVD9EezcmRrLY7nNsmJwlEUroON5i1HK8YEi+PuQY4Mr LBB29ruhIdGdsY6zxhG+5X8a9vfAvLYU1Xvbey1sZc8Lrm1ZWaJ1oy3gxn04292KFnxmiCPwp N9d30UBSZ9l2urXZ7XdRoL6m05cS1sgfEdLf5zQVSwEOzE+U/H1R9huxayYQl Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-pci@vger.kernel.org On 18.03.21 18:22, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > Which email client do you use? > Your responses are grouped as one huge block without any chance to respond > to you on specific point or answer to your question. I'm reading this thread in Tbird, and threading / quoting all looks nice. > I see your flow and understand your position, but will repeat my > position. We need to make sure that vendors will have incentive to > supply quirks. I really doubt we can influence that by any technical decision here in the kernel. > And regarding vendors, see Amey response below about his touchpad troubles. > The cheap electronics vendors don't care about their users. IMHO, the expensive ones don't care either. Does eg. Dell publish board schematics ? Do they even publish exact part lists (exact chipsets) along with their brochures, so customers can check wether their HW is supported, before buying and trying out ? Doesn't seem so. I've personally seen a lot cases where some supposedly supported HW turned out to be some completely different and unsupported HW that's sold under exactly the same product ID. One of many reasons for not giving them a single penny anymore. IMHO, there're only very few changes of convincing some HW vendor for doing a better job on driver side: a) product is targeted for a niche that can't live without Linux (eg. embedded) b) it's really *dangerous* for your market share if anything doesn't work properly on Linux (eg. certan server machines) c) somebody *really* big (like Google) is gun-pointing at some supplier, who's got a lot to loose d) a *massive* worldwide shitstorm against the vendor [ And often, even a combination of them isn't enough. Did you know that even Google doesn't get all specs necessary to replace away the ugly FSP blob ? (it's the same w/ AMD, but meanwhile I'm pissed enought to reverse engineer their AGESA blob). ] You see, what we do here in the kernel has no practical influence on those hw vendors. --mtx -- --- Hinweis: unverschlüsselte E-Mails können leicht abgehört und manipuliert werden ! Für eine vertrauliche Kommunikation senden Sie bitte ihren GPG/PGP-Schlüssel zu. --- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult Free software and Linux embedded engineering info@metux.net -- +49-151-27565287