* Re: [PATCH net-next] net: appletalk: remove Apple/Farallon LocalTalk PC support [not found] ` <d7076f95-b25b-3694-1ec2-9b9ff93633b7@schmorgal.com> @ 2022-05-11 8:23 ` Arnd Bergmann 2022-05-12 18:11 ` James Carlson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Arnd Bergmann @ 2022-05-11 8:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Doug Brown Cc: Arnd Bergmann, Jakub Kicinski, David Miller, Networking, Paolo Abeni, Eric Dumazet, Jonathan Corbet, Jiapeng Chong, open list:DOCUMENTATION, Paul Mackerras, linux-ppp On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 2:20 AM Doug Brown <doug@schmorgal.com> wrote: > > On 5/9/2022 11:48 PM, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > If I understand this correct, this means we could remove all of > > drivers/net/appletalk/ except for the CONFIG_ATALK Kconfig entry, > > and also remove net/appletalk/dev.c and a few bits of net/appletalk > > that reference localtalk device structures and their ioctls, right? > Yes, I believe so. At that point, would Kconfig get moved to > net/appletalk instead? (Just wondering out of my own curiosity!) > > What about appletalk over PPP (phase1 probing in aarp.c) and > > ARPHRD_LOCALTLK support in drivers/net/tun.c? Are these still > > useful without localtalk device support? > > I don't feel qualified enough to answer those ones definitively, but it > looks to me like the ARPHRD_LOCALTLK support in net/tun.c could be > stripped out, because tun_get_addr_len only gets called on a struct > net_device's type, and stripping out LocalTalk would make that condition > impossible (I think?) Right, I came to the same conclusion here. > The AppleTalk over PPP stuff probably allows Linux to be an AppleTalk > Remote Access server. I'm not aware of anyone using that capability, (or > if it even still works) but I would consider it distinct from LocalTalk. I dug around in the early git history for this one, but I'm also not sure if this is meant to still work. I see that PPPTALK support was added to net/appletalk by Alan Cox in linux-1.3.78 (1996), based on the localtalk support, and it continues to exist there along ethertalk and localtalk. I also looked at the git history for the pppd user space, and I find no indication of appletalk ever being supported there, this all looks IPv4/IPv6 specific. There was support for PPP_IPX until it was dropped this year (the kernel side got removed in 2018), but never for PPP_AT. Adding Paul Mackerras to Cc, he might know more about it. > I would definitely be happy to test any patches to make sure that > EtherTalk still works with netatalk afterward! Arnd ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH net-next] net: appletalk: remove Apple/Farallon LocalTalk PC support 2022-05-11 8:23 ` [PATCH net-next] net: appletalk: remove Apple/Farallon LocalTalk PC support Arnd Bergmann @ 2022-05-12 18:11 ` James Carlson 2022-05-12 19:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: James Carlson @ 2022-05-12 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Arnd Bergmann, Doug Brown Cc: Jakub Kicinski, David Miller, Networking, Paolo Abeni, Eric Dumazet, Jonathan Corbet, Jiapeng Chong, open list:DOCUMENTATION, Paul Mackerras, linux-ppp On 5/11/22 04:23, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > indication of appletalk ever being supported there, this all looks > IPv4/IPv6 specific. There was support for PPP_IPX until it was > dropped this year (the kernel side got removed in 2018), but never > for PPP_AT. > Adding Paul Mackerras to Cc, he might know more about it. I waited a bit before chipping in, as I think Paul would know more. The ATCP stuff was in at least a few vendor branches, but I don't think it ever made it into the main distribution. These commits seem to be where the (disabled by default) references to it first appeared: commit 50c9469f0f683c7bf8ebad9b7f97bfc03c6a4122 Author: Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org> Date: Tue Mar 4 03:32:37 1997 +0000 add defs for appletalk commit 01548ef15e0f41f9f6af33860fb459a7f578f004 Author: Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org> Date: Tue Mar 4 03:41:17 1997 +0000 connect time stuff gone to auth.c, don't die on EINTR from opening tty, ignore NCP packets during authentication, fix recursive signal problem in kill_my_pg The disabled-by-default parts were likely support contributions for those other distributions. (Very likely in BSD.) I would've thought AppleTalk was completely gone by now, and I certainly would not be sad to see the dregs removed from pppd, but there was a patch release on the netatalk package just last month, so what do I know? (The only possible reason I can see to keep any ATCP bits around at all is to make sure we can write nice-looking log messages -- to say we're rejecting "AppleTalk Control Protocol" rather than "unknown 8029." But that'd be a very minor feature.) -- James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W FN42lq08 <carlsonj@workingcode.com> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH net-next] net: appletalk: remove Apple/Farallon LocalTalk PC support 2022-05-12 18:11 ` James Carlson @ 2022-05-12 19:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 2022-05-12 19:28 ` Doug Brown 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Arnd Bergmann @ 2022-05-12 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: James Carlson Cc: Arnd Bergmann, Doug Brown, Jakub Kicinski, David Miller, Networking, Paolo Abeni, Eric Dumazet, Jonathan Corbet, Jiapeng Chong, open list:DOCUMENTATION, Paul Mackerras, linux-ppp On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:11 PM James Carlson <carlsonj@workingcode.com> wrote: > > On 5/11/22 04:23, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > indication of appletalk ever being supported there, this all looks > > IPv4/IPv6 specific. There was support for PPP_IPX until it was > > dropped this year (the kernel side got removed in 2018), but never > > for PPP_AT. > > Adding Paul Mackerras to Cc, he might know more about it. > > I waited a bit before chipping in, as I think Paul would know more. > > The ATCP stuff was in at least a few vendor branches, but I don't think > it ever made it into the main distribution. These commits seem to be > where the (disabled by default) references to it first appeared: > > commit 50c9469f0f683c7bf8ebad9b7f97bfc03c6a4122 > Author: Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org> > Date: Tue Mar 4 03:32:37 1997 +0000 > > add defs for appletalk > > commit 01548ef15e0f41f9f6af33860fb459a7f578f004 > Author: Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org> > Date: Tue Mar 4 03:41:17 1997 +0000 > > connect time stuff gone to auth.c, > don't die on EINTR from opening tty, > ignore NCP packets during authentication, > fix recursive signal problem in kill_my_pg Right, I had seen those in the git history, but neither of them actually does anything with appletak. > The disabled-by-default parts were likely support contributions for > those other distributions. (Very likely in BSD.) > > I would've thought AppleTalk was completely gone by now, and I certainly > would not be sad to see the dregs removed from pppd, but there was a > patch release on the netatalk package just last month, so what do I know? I think netatalk 3.0 dropped all appletalk protocol stuff a long time ago and only supports AFP over IP. Arnd ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH net-next] net: appletalk: remove Apple/Farallon LocalTalk PC support 2022-05-12 19:21 ` Arnd Bergmann @ 2022-05-12 19:28 ` Doug Brown 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Doug Brown @ 2022-05-12 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Arnd Bergmann, James Carlson Cc: Jakub Kicinski, David Miller, Networking, Paolo Abeni, Eric Dumazet, Jonathan Corbet, Jiapeng Chong, open list:DOCUMENTATION, Paul Mackerras, linux-ppp On 5/12/2022 12:21 PM, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:11 PM James Carlson <carlsonj@workingcode.com> wrote: >> >> I would've thought AppleTalk was completely gone by now, and I certainly >> would not be sad to see the dregs removed from pppd, but there was a >> patch release on the netatalk package just last month, so what do I know? > > I think netatalk 3.0 dropped all appletalk protocol stuff a long time ago and > only supports AFP over IP. That's right. The older netatalk 2.x branch has a few different branches on GitHub that are being maintained to allow AppleTalk connectivity with older Macs through Ethernet (or LocalTalk-to-Ethernet bridges), so people are still actively using AppleTalk with Ethernet. BTW, I messed up my quoting in my previous message so it was hard to see part of my reply -- but I agree that everything in drivers/net/appletalk could go away except for the Kconfig entry for CONFIG_ATALK. And dev.c and the other LocalTalk-specific bits in net/appletalk could go away. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-05-12 19:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <20220509150130.1047016-1-kuba@kernel.org> [not found] ` <CAK8P3a0FVM8g0LG3_mHJ1xX3Bs9cxae8ez7b9qvGOD+aJdc8Dw@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <20220509103216.180be080@kernel.org> [not found] ` <9cac4fbd-9557-b0b8-54fa-93f0290a6fb8@schmorgal.com> [not found] ` <CAK8P3a1AA181LqQSxnToSVx0e5wmneUsOKfmnxVMsUNh465C_Q@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <d7076f95-b25b-3694-1ec2-9b9ff93633b7@schmorgal.com> 2022-05-11 8:23 ` [PATCH net-next] net: appletalk: remove Apple/Farallon LocalTalk PC support Arnd Bergmann 2022-05-12 18:11 ` James Carlson 2022-05-12 19:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 2022-05-12 19:28 ` Doug Brown
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