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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MzhVtJnMMoMG6p3B8rRrmgU9GXe+XQgi0BUbV5B141c=; b=Z/N9Ac7cOQmJxtcbCwpkLMxzojK3rJjtNC1Xow+5xUQONPnhgwH9ZGvS64xmgQ4JbQ VMRLSc8EplMpHGVwvn1KY+o2jCfCALvzfJGo4WXVH9AaDlcbewWE0LG1M+ldn3xP7vf0 2Yv7X8VuV8BdQDEKuPCarbPZK4oBhEiJULSmTk7B9iT6UjNTElOgtsSIgbKhT45EXBeI RalZvKTq7ToNPPWuT8JfQSj78wTwgFj2YzgZganr4tXzYKaz07xdj4aItnTyOsthybP7 D5vnRIUiuhZsLjP0KxuhUX+CEqe6TBggdMfFCVBAzJA1Vsr9MGfg5+EfaZajDVg+XgT/ 6d1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZEx4QL9V2bk7Xt+O+k+lDc2UHKkkw8yPhSg7dwsDf2cf9RtCwV cCyEZFMges9mAYj6AgkPBRfI/KlirzWFFTM8W4E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7q+XNHtmiMnaUSeKtAXuQm+4XcIc0zlU98daDR6/lwpsB6Jx0dXoRLgSFqcNsLB8t5k+Abn1eLfBqQtXTZ8Tg= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:cb08:: with SMTP id b8mr15591703iog.200.1548807451878; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:17:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4aef7216-726c-f565-5c0f-cebd2aefb46d@wdc.com> <2e5329eff04e2b0bc2433b5d974bf10f@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> <7efecac7-17bd-5fc1-d0de-9fd498db4751@wdc.com> <452be0d3-da8e-643e-9f91-c38f0af36ffd@suse.de> <033872b8-49d5-2731-118f-967488f4763f@suse.de> In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 16:17:20 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [sw-dev] SBI extension proposal v2 To: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20190129_161735_472126_60CDB349 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 13.08 ) X-BeenThere: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "mark.rutland@arm.com" , Bruce Hoult , Damien Le Moal , Olof Johansson , "alankao@andestech.com" , "abner.chang@hpe.com" , Christoph Hellwig , Benjamin Herrenschmidt , Palmer Dabbelt , Alexander Graf , "zong@andestech.com" , Atish Patra , "sw-dev@groups.riscv.org" , Paul Walmsley , Anup Patel , "mick@ics.forth.gr" , Alistair Francis , "linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org" , Andrew Waterman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+infradead-linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org btw, w.r.t. carrying sbi with the kernel image. When you get to a big enough world, and you get enough machines, updating flash to update firmware runtime services is not guaranteed to end well. Flash just isn't that great and the less you depend on it the better. So the idea of being able to fix an SBI problem by kexec'ing a kernel that carries its own SBI is a very attractive idea. Anything that reduces the role of persistent memory for startup is a very attractive idea. And this is why I believe an M mode that is changeable by the kernel is a feature, not a bug: it let us do something we could not do before. That doesn't mean it is for every possible use; but the fact that you can do it is great. You can't do that stuff on x86, for example, and it's been a problem for 25 years now. This is why I find riscv so attractive, it can free us from old thinking. On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 4:06 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:26 PM Palmer Dabbelt wrote: > > > Yep, and the hope here is that we can build something that allows everyone to implement their systems within the same framework. With any luck we'll be able to build a platform specification that allows both of these systems to exist -- essentially "boot Linux into M-mode" or "boot Linux into S-mode". It'll be work to make sure the spec can work for everyone, but that's part of the way to get a good spec. > > ... and how is that to be achieved if the RISC-V Foundation > pathologically insists on secretive closed-doors discussions when it > comes to RISC-V specifications? > > it's time for the RISC-V Foundation to recognise that the ITU-style > closed doors practice is damaging the ecosystem by preventing people > from contributing. > > l. _______________________________________________ linux-riscv mailing list linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-riscv