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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 00:04:14 +0000 Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id p6so13312746lfc.1 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:03:53 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcgRiB0jjDRpEoM4M7X0IQwNPuEjPHE1AMJpRAarT2IgBC9rO/D rTKLK2BuUFoCTpe5IlJIh8/aV/M5ZaQfz1XMnYE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7nfh2+E8WakR/GsdtSsPExQGIVui/VMkA+i7w9PjOQzyp4QgjttHldcR8xLUhUOB1Lv0Qsr5bZPn1PhyAXAwk= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4ed9:: with SMTP id u86mr18616641lfk.78.1548720227556; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:03:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4aef7216-726c-f565-5c0f-cebd2aefb46d@wdc.com> <2e5329eff04e2b0bc2433b5d974bf10f@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> <7efecac7-17bd-5fc1-d0de-9fd498db4751@wdc.com> <452be0d3-da8e-643e-9f91-c38f0af36ffd@suse.de> <033872b8-49d5-2731-118f-967488f4763f@suse.de> In-Reply-To: From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 00:03:35 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [sw-dev] SBI extension proposal v2 To: Bruce Hoult X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20190128_160415_965787_878B7D15 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 12.58 ) X-BeenThere: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "mark.rutland@arm.com" , Christoph Hellwig , Damien Le Moal , Olof Johansson , "alankao@andestech.com" , "abner.chang@hpe.com" , Atish Patra , Benjamin Herrenschmidt , Palmer Dabbelt , Alexander Graf , "zong@andestech.com" , ron minnich , "sw-dev@groups.riscv.org" , Paul Walmsley , Anup Patel , "mick@ics.forth.gr" , Alistair Francis , "linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org" , Andrew Waterman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+infradead-linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 11:22 PM Bruce Hoult wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 11:40 AM ron minnich wrote: > > Short form: if the PMP makes it impossible to measure, disable and > > replace firmware from the kernel, then PMP is a bug, not a feature. > > I disagree. > > The owner/user should be able to change the SBI, perhaps by booting > into a special mode. ah, we have a bit of cross-over. the problem is that there is a financial disincentive to add such modes to all types of products. take an example: a DRM-locking mechanism endorsed and lobbied by the Mafia Picture Association of America (the MPAA). they want the bootloader locked, so that the OS can be locked, so that the applications can be locked, so that they can get their cut of revenues and people cannot copy movies. if you are not familiar with how intrusive this really is, try buying a portable USB DVD Drive and try to simply write data to it, on a GNU/Linux system. it will FAIL, but worse than that the DVD Drive will *self-destruct* and never even read let alone write DVDs again, and the reason it will fail is because there is a little-known conspiracy between proprietary OS writers and the DVD manufacturers, where if certain secret IDE commands are not sent to the DVD Drive whilst it is writing, it *will* self-destruct [in 2004 i actually had to take 3 such products back to Best Buy. each one systematically failed, the moment i tried to use it to take backups. in the end i had to get an internal IDE drive] now... do you think that the Mafiaaa would be happy to learn of a proposal to allow *users* to bypass the "security" that they lobbied so hard for so long to have added into products? what do you think would happen to a company that tried to sell product that had such "insecure" bypass mechanisms in it? do you believe that they would have *any* ODM clients take up their processor as part of products? so unfortunately, with so much money involved in bringing processors to market, "should" may be viewed by investors as "financially irresponsible". which makes me really annoyed, as the whole thing is just so utterly unethical. l. _______________________________________________ linux-riscv mailing list linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-riscv