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[195.130.156.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j4sm6459987edh.69.2019.02.06.19.56.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 06 Feb 2019 19:56:50 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Walmsley X-Google-Original-From: Paul Walmsley Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 19:56:49 -0800 (PST) To: ron minnich Subject: Re: [sw-dev] SBI extension proposal v2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4aef7216-726c-f565-5c0f-cebd2aefb46d@wdc.com> <2e5329eff04e2b0bc2433b5d974bf10f@mailhost.ics.forth.gr> <7efecac7-17bd-5fc1-d0de-9fd498db4751@wdc.com> <452be0d3-da8e-643e-9f91-c38f0af36ffd@suse.de> <033872b8-49d5-2731-118f-967488f4763f@suse.de> <22450f8b5b18421e486985725b1a58167662fd2d.camel@kernel.crashing.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (DEB 301 2018-08-15) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20190206_195653_683649_C250940C X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 12.83 ) X-BeenThere: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "mark.rutland@arm.com" , Christoph Hellwig , Damien Le Moal , Olof Johansson , "alankao@andestech.com" , "abner.chang@hpe.com" , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Lu=EDs_Marques?= , Anup Patel , Palmer Dabbelt , Alexander Graf , "zong@andestech.com" , Atish Patra , "sw-dev@groups.riscv.org" , Paul Walmsley , Benjamin Herrenschmidt , "mick@ics.forth.gr" , Alistair Francis , Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton , "linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org" , Andrew Waterman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+infradead-linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Tue, 5 Feb 2019, ron minnich wrote: > While I respect the tremendous amount of work the OpenSBI authors have > done, I agree with Benjamin and Luis. There are a few key points that seem to be getting lost in this discussion: 1. OpenSBI is a sample implementation of the SBI interface, and is not the SBI standard itself 2. It is optional to implement the SBI, and it's likely that only certain types of platforms will do so 3. OpenSBI, from my point of view, consists of two distinct components: a. libraries that can be used as reference implementations by other early boot firmware; and b. sample early boot firmware that replaces riscv-pk As far as I can tell, as long as the platform specification standards are written correctly, there's no conflict between SBI-based platforms and SBI-less platforms. > There is a further issue that occurred to me doing their excellent > FOSDEM talk, which is that nowhere in this has any kind of verified > boot scenario been discussed, and if you don't get that thinking in > from the start it is very hard to wedge it in later. Verified boot seems almost completely orthogonal to OpenSBI's library implementation (3a, above). U-boot, or Grub, or Coreboot, could reuse the OpenSBI libraries, but not the OpenSBI early boot firmware. Then those other bootloaders can implement whatever verified/trusted/secure boot approach that they wish. As 3b mentions above, the OpenSBI repository also contains sample early boot firmware. That part of OpenSBI would clearly need to be modified to support some sort of verified boot. However, no one to my knowledge is proposing to make the OpenSBI sample early boot firmware a RISC-V standard. That part of OpenSBL is just a sample first-stage bootloader implementation - the same way that U-boot SPL or Coreboot romstage are sample first-stage bootloader implementations. ... I personally am excited to finally be able to use U-boot's rich commandline interface and device drivers without needing to have riscv-pk (aka BBL) involved. Those who are not doing active RISC-V Linux development may not be aware that the use of riscv-pk made it very difficult to use upstream-focused Linux DT data. Even though I might have slightly different preferences for the current boot flow, their work removes a major obstacle from RISC-V Linux upstream development, and is a big step forward. - Paul _______________________________________________ linux-riscv mailing list linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-riscv