From: tuexen@freebsd.org
To: Marcelo Ricardo Leitner <mleitner@redhat.com>
Cc: Xin Long <lucien.xin@gmail.com>,
"linux-sctp @ vger . kernel . org" <linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: add SPP_PLPMTUD_ENABLE/DISABLE flag for spp_flags
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 08:59:49 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <F3974C05-D740-4FB4-93D2-4FA7E9B1D88D@freebsd.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALnP8ZZDyiMfRLJCCCS50nFVXWWh6WZKc-87pS=1vz8QX-4gDQ@mail.gmail.com>
> On 20. May 2021, at 02:45, Marcelo Ricardo Leitner <mleitner@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:16:38AM +0200, Michael Tuexen wrote:
>>> On 20. May 2021, at 00:44, mleitner@redhat.com wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:44:20PM -0400, Xin Long wrote:
>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:15 PM Michael Tuexen <tuexen@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19. May 2021, at 18:18, Xin Long <lucien.xin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 2:33 PM Xin Long <lucien.xin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 1:38 PM Michael Tuexen <tuexen@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 18. May 2021, at 18:43, Xin Long <lucien.xin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Michael,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We're implementing RFC8899 (PLPMTUD) on Linux SCTP recently,
>>>>>>>>> and to make this be controlled by setsockopt with
>>>>>>>>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS, as in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6458#section-8.1.12:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> we need another two flags to add for spp_flags:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SPP_PLPMTUD_ENABLE
>>>>>>>>> SPP_PLPMTUD_DISABLE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you think it makes sense? if yes, does the RFC6458 need to update?
>>>>>>>>> if not, do you have a better suggestion for it?
>>>>>>>> It is great new that you want to implement RFC 8899. I plan to do the
>>>>>>>> same for the FreeBSD stack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my view, RFC 8899 is the right way to implement PMTU discovery.
>>>>>>>> So I will just use the SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE and SPP_PMTUD_DISABLE. I don't
>>>>>>>> think that the user needs to control which method is used.
>>>>>>>> I you want to support multiple versions, I would make that
>>>>>>>> controllable via a sysctl variable. But I think for FreeBSD, support
>>>>>>>> for RFC 8899 will be the only way of doing PMTU discovery. There
>>>>>>>> might be multiple choices for details like how to do the searching,
>>>>>>>> how long to wait for some events. These will be controllable via
>>>>>>>> sysctl.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So in my view, there is no need to extend the socket API. What do you think?
>>>>>> I just noticed that with multiple versions supported, and without extending
>>>>>> this API, all applications will have to use the same version as it's
>>>>>> controlled by
>>>>>> sysctl. And when switching to another version by sysctl, all
>>>>>> applications will be
>>>>>> affected and have to do the switch. that seems not nice.
>>>>> That is true, but an application can not expect any specific behaviour
>>>>> right now when they are not disabling PMTUD.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about adding a sysctl variable, which defines the default
>>>>> algorithm and a socket option, which allows to get and set
>>>>> the algorithm being used.
>>>> yes, that's also what I'm thinking.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>>> sysctl is always used for the default value for future sockets.
>>>> and the socket option should be added for a socket/asoc's setting.
>>>
>>> Speaking of inheritance, it should also use the SCTP_FUTURE_ASSOC /
>>> SCTP_CURRENT_ASSOC / SCTP_ALL_ASSOC mechanism. Like
>>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS, for example.
>> Yepp.
>>>
>>> The system can provide defaults but if the application requires
>>> something, it should have a good way of requesting it.
>>>
>>> Speaking of SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS, maybe reuse spp_pathmtu field?
>>> As in, if SPP_PMTUD_ENABLE is enabled, spp_pathmtu of "1" or "2" bytes
>>> doesn't make sense, and it could mean the algorithm used. Thing is,
>>> the field is currently ignored, and it could lead to some unexpected
>>> behavior change. It's probably safer to just add another sockopt, but
>>> wanted to share the idea anyway.
>> I leave it completely up to you what you implement in Linux. But I
>> would prefer to use a separate socket option instead of overloading
>> an existing one.
>
> Wait. Somehow I thought we were talking about extending the RFC with
> these new definitions here, no? Or at least agreeing on a common
> interface. It would be beneficial for the application to be able to
> use the same API on FreeBSD or Linux.
Hi Marcelo,
sorry for not being clear.
What I wanted to say:
1. I really appreciate the discussion and I agree that it would be great
if we can agree on a common interface allowing to write portable
applications.
2. I don't like the idea of overloading the spp_pathmtu.
3. I'm not in a position to put in a veto to what anyone is implementing
in any implementation (except maybe the FreeBSD implementation).
Regarding the extension of the RFC. An RFC can't be changed. One can file
erratas, but I think we are discussing here an extension of the socket API
to cope with RFC 8899. So I don't think it is an errata. It would have been
appropriate to add a socket API section to RFC 8899, but it is too late for
that, too.
So I guess we can discuss it here and come to an agreement how to extend
the socket API for RFC 8899. I'm more that happy to do this.
I hope I expressed my view now clearer.
Best regards
Michael
>
> Thanks,
> Marcelo
>
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>>
>>>>
>>>> SCTP_PTMUD_METHOD?
>>>
>>> s/PTMUD/PMTUD/ :-)
>>>
>>>> 0: PTB one
>>>> 1. PLPMTUD
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, that makes sense to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another thing I want to know your opinion on is: do you think the HB
>>>>>>> should be created
>>>>>>> separately for PLPMTUD probe, instead of reusing the old HB that
>>>>>>> checks the link connectivity?
>>>>>>> As the HB for PLPMTUD probe might get lost, which we don't want to
>>>>>>> affect the link's
>>>>>>> connectivity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-05-20 10:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 17+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-05-18 16:43 add SPP_PLPMTUD_ENABLE/DISABLE flag for spp_flags Xin Long
2021-05-18 17:38 ` Michael Tuexen
2021-05-18 18:33 ` Xin Long
2021-05-18 19:19 ` Michael Tuexen
2021-05-19 22:24 ` mleitner
2021-05-20 2:05 ` Xin Long
2021-05-20 7:06 ` tuexen
2021-05-20 15:13 ` Xin Long
2021-05-19 16:18 ` Xin Long
2021-05-19 18:15 ` Michael Tuexen
2021-05-19 18:44 ` Xin Long
2021-05-19 22:44 ` mleitner
2021-05-19 23:16 ` Michael Tuexen
2021-05-20 0:45 ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2021-05-20 6:59 ` tuexen [this message]
2021-05-20 19:27 ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2021-05-19 23:10 ` Michael Tuexen
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