Linux-Security-Module Archive on lore.kernel.org
 help / color / Atom feed
From: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>
To: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
Cc: Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@kernel.org>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>, bpf <bpf@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
	Masahiro Yamada <yamada.masahiro@socionext.com>,
	Gary Lin <GLin@suse.com>, Bruno Meneguele <bmeneg@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH] net/bpfilter: Remove this broken and apparently unmantained
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:54:08 -0700
Message-ID: <20200624175408.kwc562ofnfhmy674@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <748ef005-7f64-ab9b-c767-c617ec995df4@schaufler-ca.com>

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 08:41:37AM -0700, Casey Schaufler wrote:
> On 6/24/2020 12:05 AM, Tetsuo Handa wrote:
> > Forwarding to LSM-ML again. Any comments?
> 
> Hey, BPF folks - you *really* need to do better about keeping the LSM
> community in the loop when you're discussing LSM issues. 
> 
> >
> > On 2020/06/24 15:39, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 01:58:33PM +0900, Tetsuo Handa wrote:
> >>> On 2020/06/24 13:00, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> >>>>> However, regarding usermode_blob, although the byte array (which contains code / data)
> >>>>> might be initially loaded from the kernel space (which is protected), that byte array
> >>>>> is no longer protected (e.g. SIGKILL, strace()) when executed because they are placed
> >>>>> in the user address space. Thus, LSM modules (including pathname based security) want
> >>>>> to control how that byte array can behave.
> >>>> It's privileged memory regardless. root can poke into kernel or any process memory.
> >>> LSM is there to restrict processes running as "root".
> >> hmm. do you really mean that it's possible for an LSM to restrict CAP_SYS_ADMIN effectively?
> 
> I think that SELinux works hard to do just that. SELinux implements it's own
> privilege model that is tangential to the capabilities model.

of course. no argument here.

> More directly, it is simple to create a security module to provide finer privilege
> granularity than capabilities. I have one lurking in a source tree, and I would
> be surprised if it's the only one waiting for the next round of LSM stacking.

no one is arguing with that either.

> 
> >> LSM can certainly provide extra level of foolproof-ness against accidental
> >> mistakes, but it's not a security boundary.
> 
> Gasp! Them's fight'n words. How do you justify such an outrageous claim?

.. for root user processes.
What's outrageous about that?
Did you capture the context or just replying to few sentences out of the context?

  reply index

Thread overview: 138+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <87d066vd4y.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org>
     [not found] ` <20200611233134.5vofl53dj5wpwp5j@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]   ` <87bllngirv.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org>
     [not found]     ` <CAADnVQ+qNxFjTYBpYW9ZhStMh_oJBS5C_FsxSS=0Mzy=u54MSg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]       ` <CAADnVQLuGYX=LamARhrZcze1ej4ELj-y99fLzOCgz60XLPw_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]         ` <87ftaxd7ky.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org>
     [not found]           ` <20200616015552.isi6j5x732okiky4@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]             ` <87h7v1pskt.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org>
     [not found]               ` <20200623183520.5e7fmlt3omwa2lof@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]                 ` <87h7v1mx4z.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org>
     [not found]                   ` <20200623194023.lzl34qt2wndhcehk@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]                     ` <b4a805e7-e009-dfdf-d011-be636ce5c4f5@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]                       ` <20200624040054.x5xzkuhiw67cywzl@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]                         ` <5254444e-465e-6dee-287b-bef58526b724@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]                           ` <20200624063940.ctzhf4nnh3cjyxqi@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
2020-06-24  7:05                             ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-24 15:41                               ` Casey Schaufler
2020-06-24 17:54                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov [this message]
2020-06-24 19:48                                   ` Casey Schaufler
     [not found]                     ` <878sgck6g0.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org>
     [not found]                       ` <CAADnVQL8WrfV74v1ChvCKE=pQ_zo+A5EtEBB3CbD=P5ote8_MA@mail.gmail.com>
2020-06-24 23:14                         ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-25  1:35                           ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-25  6:38                             ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-25  9:57                               ` Greg KH
2020-06-25 11:03                                 ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-25 12:07                                   ` Greg KH
2020-06-25 14:21                                     ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-25 19:34                                     ` David Miller
2020-06-26  1:36                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2020-06-26  1:51                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-26  4:58                                           ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-26  5:41                                             ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-26  6:20                                               ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-26  6:39                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-26 12:51                                         ` [PATCH 00/14] Make the user mode driver code a better citizen Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:53                                           ` [PATCH 01/14] umh: Capture the pid in umh_pipe_setup Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:53                                           ` [PATCH 02/14] umh: Move setting PF_UMH into umh_pipe_setup Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:54                                           ` [PATCH 03/14] umh: Rename the user mode driver helpers for clarity Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:54                                           ` [PATCH 04/14] umh: Remove call_usermodehelper_setup_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:55                                           ` [PATCH 05/14] umh: Separate the user mode driver and the user mode helper support Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 16:22                                             ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-26 16:45                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-27  1:26                                                 ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-27  4:21                                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-27  4:36                                                     ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-26 12:55                                           ` [PATCH 06/14] umd: For clarity rename umh_info umd_info Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 15:37                                             ` Kees Cook
2020-06-26 16:31                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:56                                           ` [PATCH 07/14] umd: Rename umd_info.cmdline umd_info.driver_name Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:56                                           ` [PATCH 08/14] umd: Transform fork_usermode_blob into fork_usermode_driver Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:57                                           ` [PATCH 09/14] umh: Stop calling do_execve_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:57                                           ` [PATCH 10/14] exec: Remove do_execve_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:58                                           ` [PATCH 11/14] bpfilter: Move bpfilter_umh back into init data Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:58                                           ` [PATCH 12/14] umd: Track user space drivers with struct pid Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:59                                           ` [PATCH 13/14] bpfilter: Take advantage of the facilities of " Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 12:59                                           ` [PATCH 14/14] umd: Remove exit_umh Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 13:48                                           ` [PATCH 00/14] Make the user mode driver code a better citizen Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 19:55                                             ` [PATCH v2 00/15] " Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 19:56                                               ` [PATCH v2 01/15] umh: Capture the pid in umh_pipe_setup Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 19:57                                               ` [PATCH v2 02/15] umh: Move setting PF_UMH into umh_pipe_setup Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 19:57                                               ` [PATCH v2 03/15] umh: Rename the user mode driver helpers for clarity Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 19:59                                               ` [PATCH v2 04/15] umh: Remove call_usermodehelper_setup_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:00                                               ` [PATCH v2 05/15] umh: Separate the user mode driver and the user mode helper support Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30 16:58                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-07-01 17:18                                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-01 17:42                                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-29 20:01                                               ` [PATCH v2 06/15] umd: For clarity rename umh_info umd_info Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:02                                               ` [PATCH v2 07/15] umd: Rename umd_info.cmdline umd_info.driver_name Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:03                                               ` [PATCH v2 08/15] umd: Transform fork_usermode_blob into fork_usermode_driver Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:03                                               ` [PATCH v2 09/15] umh: Stop calling do_execve_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:04                                               ` [PATCH v2 10/15] exec: Remove do_execve_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30  5:43                                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-06-30 12:14                                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30 13:38                                                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-06-30 14:28                                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30 16:55                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-29 20:05                                               ` [PATCH v2 11/15] bpfilter: Move bpfilter_umh back into init data Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:06                                               ` [PATCH v2 12/15] umd: Track user space drivers with struct pid Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:06                                               ` [PATCH v2 13/15] bpfilter: Take advantage of the facilities of " Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:07                                               ` [PATCH v2 14/15] umd: Remove exit_umh Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 20:08                                               ` [PATCH v2 15/15] umd: Stop using split_argv Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-29 22:12                                               ` [PATCH v2 00/15] Make the user mode driver code a better citizen Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-30  1:13                                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30  6:16                                                   ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-30 12:29                                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30 13:21                                                   ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-07-02 13:08                                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 13:40                                                       ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-07-02 16:02                                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-03 13:19                                                           ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-07-03 22:25                                                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-04  6:57                                                               ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-07-08  4:46                                                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30 16:52                                                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-07-01 17:12                                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:40                                               ` [PATCH v3 00/16] " Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 01/16] umh: Capture the pid in umh_pipe_setup Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 02/16] umh: Move setting PF_UMH into umh_pipe_setup Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 03/16] umh: Rename the user mode driver helpers for clarity Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 04/16] umh: Remove call_usermodehelper_setup_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 05/16] umh: Separate the user mode driver and the user mode helper support Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 06/16] umd: For clarity rename umh_info umd_info Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 07/16] umd: Rename umd_info.cmdline umd_info.driver_name Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 08/16] umd: Transform fork_usermode_blob into fork_usermode_driver Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 09/16] umh: Stop calling do_execve_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 10/16] exec: Remove do_execve_file Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-08  6:35                                                   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-07-08 12:41                                                     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-07-08 13:08                                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-08 13:32                                                         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-07-12 21:02                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 11/16] bpfilter: Move bpfilter_umh back into init data Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 12/16] umd: Track user space drivers with struct pid Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 13/16] exit: Factor thread_group_exited out of pidfd_poll Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-03 20:30                                                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-07-03 21:37                                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-04  0:03                                                       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-07-04 15:50                                                       ` Christian Brauner
2020-07-07 17:09                                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-08  0:05                                                           ` Daniel Borkmann
2020-07-08  3:50                                                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-04 16:00                                                   ` Christian Brauner
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 14/16] bpfilter: Take advantage of the facilities of struct pid Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 15/16] umd: Remove exit_umh Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 16:41                                                 ` [PATCH v3 16/16] umd: Stop using split_argv Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-02 23:51                                                 ` [PATCH v3 00/16] Make the user mode driver code a better citizen Tetsuo Handa
2020-07-09 22:05                                                 ` [merged][PATCH " Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-14 19:42                                                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-07-08  5:20                                               ` [PATCH v2 00/15] " Luis Chamberlain
2020-06-26 14:10                                           ` [PATCH 00/14] " Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-06-26 16:40                                           ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-26 17:17                                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-26 18:22                                               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-27 11:38                                           ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-27 12:59                                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-27 13:57                                               ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-28 19:44                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-29  2:20                                                   ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-29 20:19                                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30  6:28                                                       ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-30 12:32                                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-06-30 16:48                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-30 21:54                                                           ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-30 21:57                                                             ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-06-30 22:58                                                               ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-25 12:56                           ` [RFC][PATCH] net/bpfilter: Remove this broken and apparently unmantained Stephen Smalley
2020-06-25 13:25                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-06-25 14:26                               ` Stephen Smalley
2020-06-25 14:36                                 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-06-25 15:21                                 ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-25 16:03                                   ` Stephen Smalley
2020-06-25 16:06                                   ` Casey Schaufler
     [not found] <20200607014935.vhd3scr4qmawq7no@ast-mbp>
     [not found] ` <33cf7a57-0afa-9bb9-f831-61cca6c19eba@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]   ` <20200608162306.iu35p4xoa2kcp3bu@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]     ` <af00d341-6046-e187-f5c8-5f57b40f017c@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]       ` <20200609012826.dssh2lbfr6tlhwwa@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]         ` <ddabab93-4660-3a46-8b05-89385e292b75@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]           ` <20200609223214.43db3orsyjczb2dd@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]             ` <6a8b284f-461e-11b5-9985-6dc70012f774@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]               ` <20200610000546.4hh4n53vaxc4hypi@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
     [not found]                 ` <1be571d2-c517-d7a7-788e-3bcc07afa858@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
     [not found]                   ` <20200610033256.xkv5a7l6vtb2jiox@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
2020-06-10  7:30                     ` Tetsuo Handa
2020-06-10 16:24                       ` Casey Schaufler

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20200624175408.kwc562ofnfhmy674@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com \
    --to=alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com \
    --cc=GLin@suse.com \
    --cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=ast@kernel.org \
    --cc=bmeneg@redhat.com \
    --cc=bpf@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=casey@schaufler-ca.com \
    --cc=daniel@iogearbox.net \
    --cc=davem@davemloft.net \
    --cc=ebiederm@xmission.com \
    --cc=keescook@chromium.org \
    --cc=kuba@kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp \
    --cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk \
    --cc=yamada.masahiro@socionext.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

Linux-Security-Module Archive on lore.kernel.org

Archives are clonable:
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/0 linux-security-module/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 linux-security-module linux-security-module/ https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module \
		linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org
	public-inbox-index linux-security-module

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://nntp.lore.kernel.org/org.kernel.vger.linux-security-module


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git