From: Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>
To: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>
Cc: "KP Singh" <kpsingh@chromium.org>,
"James Morris" <jmorris@namei.org>,
"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
"Casey Schaufler" <casey@schaufler-ca.com>,
"open list" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
bpf <bpf@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
"Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@kernel.org>,
"Daniel Borkmann" <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
"Thomas Garnier" <thgarnie@chromium.org>,
"Michael Halcrow" <mhalcrow@google.com>,
"Paul Turner" <pjt@google.com>,
"Brendan Gregg" <brendan.d.gregg@gmail.com>,
"Jann Horn" <jannh@google.com>,
"Matthew Garrett" <mjg59@google.com>,
"Christian Brauner" <christian@brauner.io>,
"Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>,
"Florent Revest" <revest@chromium.org>,
"Brendan Jackman" <jackmanb@chromium.org>,
"Martin KaFai Lau" <kafai@fb.com>,
"Song Liu" <songliubraving@fb.com>, "Yonghong Song" <yhs@fb.com>,
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
"Mauro Carvalho Chehab" <mchehab+samsung@kernel.org>,
"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
"Nicolas Ferre" <nicolas.ferre@microchip.com>,
"Stanislav Fomichev" <sdf@google.com>,
"Quentin Monnet" <quentin.monnet@netronome.com>,
"Andrey Ignatov" <rdna@fb.com>, "Joe Stringer" <joe@wand.net.nz>,
"Paul Moore" <paul@paul-moore.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v1 00/13] MAC and Audit policy using eBPF (KRSI)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:59:08 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <38a82df5-7610-efe1-d6cd-76f6f68c6110@tycho.nsa.gov> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200115024830.4ogd3mi5jy5hwr2v@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com>
On 1/14/20 9:48 PM, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 12:42:22PM -0500, Stephen Smalley wrote:
>> On 1/14/20 11:54 AM, Stephen Smalley wrote:
>>> On 1/10/20 12:53 PM, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 04:27:58PM +0100, KP Singh wrote:
>>>>> On 09-Jan 14:47, Stephen Smalley wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/9/20 2:43 PM, KP Singh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10-Jan 06:07, James Morris wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2020, Stephen Smalley wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/9/20 1:11 PM, James Morris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Stephen Smalley wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The cover letter subject line and the
>>>>>>>>>>> Kconfig help text refer to it as a
>>>>>>>>>>> BPF-based "MAC and Audit policy". It
>>>>>>>>>>> has an enforce config option that
>>>>>>>>>>> enables the bpf programs to deny access,
>>>>>>>>>>> providing access control. IIRC,
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the earlier discussion threads, the BPF
>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers suggested that Smack
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> other LSMs could be entirely
>>>>>>>>>>> re-implemented via it in the future, and
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> such an implementation would be more optimal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In this case, the eBPF code is similar to a
>>>>>>>>>> kernel module, rather than a
>>>>>>>>>> loadable policy file. It's a loadable
>>>>>>>>>> mechanism, rather than a policy, in
>>>>>>>>>> my view.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought you frowned on dynamically loadable
>>>>>>>>> LSMs for both security and
>>>>>>>>> correctness reasons?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Based on the feedback from the lists we've updated the design for v2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In v2, LSM hook callbacks are allocated dynamically using BPF
>>>>>>> trampolines, appended to a separate security_hook_heads and run
>>>>>>> only after the statically allocated hooks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The security_hook_heads for all the other LSMs (SELinux, AppArmor etc)
>>>>>>> still remains __lsm_ro_after_init and cannot be modified. We are still
>>>>>>> working on v2 (not ready for review yet) but the general idea can be
>>>>>>> seen here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/sinkap/linux-krsi/blob/patch/v1/trampoline_prototype/security/bpf/lsm.c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Evaluating the security impact of this is the next
>>>>>>>> step. My understanding
>>>>>>>> is that eBPF via BTF is constrained to read only access to hook
>>>>>>>> parameters, and that its behavior would be entirely restrictive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to understand the security impact more
>>>>>>>> fully, though. Can the
>>>>>>>> eBPF code make arbitrary writes to the kernel, or
>>>>>>>> read anything other than
>>>>>>>> the correctly bounded LSM hook parameters?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As mentioned, the BPF verifier does not allow writes to BTF types.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And a traditional security module would necessarily fall
>>>>>>>>> under GPL; is the eBPF code required to be
>>>>>>>>> likewise? If not, KRSI is a
>>>>>>>>> gateway for proprietary LSMs...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right, we do not want this to be a GPL bypass.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not intended to be a GPL bypass and the BPF verifier checks
>>>>>>> for license compatibility of the loaded program with GPL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIUC, it checks that the program is GPL compatible if it
>>>>>> uses a function
>>>>>> marked GPL-only. But what specifically is marked GPL-only
>>>>>> that is required
>>>>>> for eBPF programs using KRSI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Good point! If no-one objects, I can add it to the BPF_PROG_TYPE_LSM
>>>>> specific verification for the v2 of the patch-set which would require
>>>>> all BPF-LSM programs to be GPL.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's a good idea to enforce license on the program.
>>>> The kernel doesn't do it for modules.
>>>> For years all of BPF tracing progs were GPL because they have to use
>>>> GPL-ed helpers to do anything meaningful.
>>>> So for KRSI just make sure that all helpers are GPL-ed as well.
>>>
>>> IIUC, the example eBPF code included in this patch series showed a
>>> program that used a GPL-only helper for the purpose of reporting event
>>> output to userspace. But it could have just as easily omitted the use of
>>> that helper and still implemented its own arbitrary access control model
>>> on the LSM hooks to which it attached. It seems like the question is
>>> whether the kernel developers are ok with exposing the entire LSM hook
>>> interface and all the associated data structures to non-GPLd code,
>>> irrespective of what helpers it may or may not use.
>>
>> Also, to be clear, while kernel modules aren't necessarily GPL, prior to
>> this patch series, all Linux security modules were necessarily GPLd in order
>> to use the LSM interface.
>
> Because they use securityfs_create_file() GPL-ed api, right?
> but not because module license is enforced.
No, securityfs was a later addition and is not required by all LSMs
either. Originally LSMs had to register their hooks via
register_security(), which was intentionally EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL() to
avoid exposing the LSM interface to non-GPLd modules because there were
significant concerns with doing so when LSM was first merged. Then in
20510f2f4e2dabb0ff6c13901807627ec9452f98 ("security: Convert LSM into a
static interface"), the ability for loadable modules to use
register_security() at all was removed, limiting its use to built-in
modules. In commit b1d9e6b0646d0e5ee5d9050bd236b6c65d66faef ("LSM:
Switch to lists of hooks"), register_security() was replaced by
security_add_hooks(), but this was likewise not exported for use by
modules and could only be used by built-in code. The bpf LSM is
providing a shim that allows eBPF code to attach to these hooks that
would otherwise not be exposed to non-GPLd code, so if the bpf LSM does
not require the eBPF programs to also be GPLd, then that is a change
from current practice.
>> So allowing non-GPL eBPF-based LSMs would be a
>> change.
>
> I don't see it this way. seccomp progs technically unlicensed. Yet they can
> disallow any syscall. Primitive KRSI progs like
> int bpf-prog(void*) { return REJECT; }
> would be able to do selectively disable a syscall with an overhead acceptable
> in production systems (unlike seccomp). I want this use case to be available to
> people. It's a bait, because to do real progs people would need to GPL them.
> Key helpers bpf_perf_event_output, bpf_ktime_get_ns, bpf_trace_printk are all
> GPL-ed. It may look that most networking helpers are not-GPL, but real life is
> different. To debug programs bpf_trace_printk() is necessary. To have
> communication with user space bpf_perf_event_output() is necssary. To measure
> anything or implement timestamps bpf_ktime_get_ns() is necessary. So today all
> meaninful bpf programs are GPL. Those that are not GPL probably exist, but
> they're toy programs. Hence I have zero concerns about GPL bypass coming from
> tracing, networking, and, in the future, KRSI progs too.
You have more confidence than I do about that. I would anticipate
developers of out-of-tree LSMs latching onto this bpf LSM and using it
to avoid GPL. I don't see that any of those helpers are truly needed to
implement an access control model.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-01-15 13:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-12-20 15:41 [PATCH bpf-next v1 00/13] MAC and Audit policy using eBPF (KRSI) KP Singh
2019-12-20 15:41 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 01/13] bpf: Refactor BPF_EVENT context macros to its own header KP Singh
2019-12-20 20:10 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-20 20:26 ` KP Singh
2019-12-20 15:41 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 02/13] bpf: lsm: Add a skeleton and config options KP Singh
2020-01-07 21:13 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:41 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 03/13] bpf: lsm: Introduce types for eBPF based LSM KP Singh
2019-12-20 15:41 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 04/13] bpf: lsm: Allow btf_id based attachment for LSM hooks KP Singh
2019-12-23 23:54 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-30 19:22 ` KP Singh
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 05/13] tools/libbpf: Add support in libbpf for BPF_PROG_TYPE_LSM KP Singh
2019-12-24 0:07 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-24 0:09 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-01-03 23:59 ` KP Singh
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 06/13] bpf: lsm: Init Hooks and create files in securityfs KP Singh
2019-12-24 6:28 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-30 15:37 ` KP Singh
2019-12-30 18:52 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-30 19:20 ` Kees Cook
2020-01-03 23:53 ` KP Singh
2020-01-07 21:22 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 07/13] bpf: lsm: Implement attach, detach and execution KP Singh
2019-12-24 5:48 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-01-07 21:27 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 08/13] bpf: lsm: Show attached program names in hook read handler KP Singh
2020-01-07 21:28 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 09/13] bpf: lsm: Add a helper function bpf_lsm_event_output KP Singh
2019-12-24 6:36 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-30 15:11 ` KP Singh
2019-12-30 18:56 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 10/13] bpf: lsm: Handle attachment of the same program KP Singh
2019-12-24 6:38 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-01-08 18:21 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 11/13] tools/libbpf: Add bpf_program__attach_lsm KP Singh
2019-12-24 6:44 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-01-08 18:24 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 12/13] bpf: lsm: Add selftests for BPF_PROG_TYPE_LSM KP Singh
2019-12-24 6:49 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-01-04 0:09 ` KP Singh
2020-01-09 17:59 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2020-01-08 18:25 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 15:42 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 13/13] bpf: lsm: Add Documentation KP Singh
2019-12-20 17:17 ` [PATCH bpf-next v1 00/13] MAC and Audit policy using eBPF (KRSI) Casey Schaufler
2019-12-20 17:38 ` KP Singh
2019-12-30 19:15 ` Kees Cook
2020-01-08 15:25 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-01-08 18:58 ` James Morris
2020-01-08 19:33 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-01-09 18:11 ` James Morris
2020-01-09 18:23 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-01-09 18:58 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-01-09 19:07 ` James Morris
2020-01-09 19:43 ` KP Singh
2020-01-09 19:47 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-01-10 15:27 ` KP Singh
2020-01-10 17:48 ` James Morris
2020-01-10 17:53 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-01-14 16:54 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-01-14 17:42 ` Stephen Smalley
2020-01-15 2:48 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-01-15 13:59 ` Stephen Smalley [this message]
2020-01-15 14:09 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-01-15 22:23 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2020-01-09 19:11 ` KP Singh
2020-01-08 18:27 ` James Morris
2019-12-20 22:46 ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-12-30 19:30 ` Kees Cook
2019-12-31 12:11 ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-12-22 1:27 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-12-30 14:58 ` KP Singh
2019-12-30 19:14 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-24 6:51 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2019-12-30 15:04 ` KP Singh
2019-12-30 18:58 ` Andrii Nakryiko
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