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From: Ray Strode <rstrode@redhat.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Steven Whitehouse <swhiteho@redhat.com>,
	Nicolas Dichtel <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com>,
	raven@themaw.net, keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-usb@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-block <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>,
	LSM List <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux List Kernel Mailing <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	"Ray, Debarshi" <debarshi.ray@gmail.com>,
	Robbie Harwood <rharwood@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: Why add the general notification queue and its sources
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 15:32:37 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKCoTu70E9cbVu=jVG4EiXnTNiG-znvri6Omh2t++1zRw+639Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=wjcsxQ8QB_v=cwBQw4pkJg7pp-bBsdWyPivFO_OeF-y+g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 4:39 PM Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> That is *way* too specific to make for any kind of generic
> notification mechanism.
Well from my standpoint, I just don't want to have to poll... I don't
have a strong opinion
about how it looks architecturally to reach that goal.

Ideally, at a higher level, I want the userspace api that gnome uses
to be something
like:

err = krb5_cc_watch (ctx, ccache, (krb5_cc_change_fct) on_cc_change ,
&watch_fd);

then a watch_fd would get handed back and caller could poll on it. if
it woke up poll(),
caller would do

krb5_cc_watch_update (ctx, ccache, watch_fd)

or so and it would trigger on_cc_change to get called (or something like that).

If under the hood,  fd comes from opening /dev/watch_queue, and
krb5_cc_watch_update reads from some mmap'ed buffer to decide whether
or not to call on_cc_change, that's fine with me.

If under the hood, fd comes from a pipe fd returned from some ioctl or syscall,
and krb5_cc_watch_update reads messages directly from that fd to decide
whether or not to call on_cc_change, that's fine with me. too.

it could be an eventfd too, or whatever, too, just as long as its
something I can add
to poll() and don't have to intermittently poll ... :-)

> Also, what is the security model here? Open a special character
> device, and you get access to random notifications from random
> sources?
I guess dhowells answered this...

> And why would you do a broken big-key thing in the kernel in the first
> place? Why don't you just have a kernel key to indirectly encrypt
> using a key and "additional user space data". The kernel should simply
> not take care of insane 1MB keys.
🤷 dunno.  I assume you're referencing the discussions from comment 0
on that 2013 bug.  I wasn't involved in those discussions, I just chimed in
after they happened trying to avoid having to add polling :-)

I have no idea why a ticket would get that large. I assume it only is in weird
edge cases.

Anyway, gnome treats the tickets as opaque blobs.  it doesn't do anything
with them other than tell the user when they need to get refreshed...

all the actual key manipulation happens from krb5 libraries.

of course, one advantage of having the tickets kernel side is nfs could
in theory access them directly, rather than up calling back to userspace...

--Ray

  reply index

Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-04 22:15 [PATCH 00/11] Keyrings, Block and USB notifications [ver #8] David Howells
2019-09-04 22:15 ` [PATCH 01/11] uapi: General notification ring definitions " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 02/11] security: Add hooks to rule on setting a watch " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 03/11] security: Add a hook for the point of notification insertion " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 04/11] General notification queue with user mmap()'able ring buffer " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 05/11] keys: Add a notification facility " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 06/11] Add a general, global device notification watch list " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 07/11] block: Add block layer notifications " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:16 ` [PATCH 08/11] usb: Add USB subsystem " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:17 ` [PATCH 09/11] Add sample notification program " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:17 ` [PATCH 10/11] selinux: Implement the watch_key security hook " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:17 ` [PATCH 11/11] smack: Implement the watch_key and post_notification hooks " David Howells
2019-09-04 22:28 ` [PATCH 00/11] Keyrings, Block and USB notifications " Linus Torvalds
2019-09-05 17:01 ` Why add the general notification queue and its sources David Howells
2019-09-05 17:19   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-05 18:32     ` Ray Strode
2019-09-05 20:39       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-06 19:32         ` Ray Strode [this message]
2019-09-06 19:41           ` Ray Strode
2019-09-06 19:53           ` Robbie Harwood
2019-09-05 21:32       ` David Howells
2019-09-05 22:08         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-05 23:18         ` David Howells
2019-09-06  0:07           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-06 10:09           ` David Howells
2019-09-06 15:35             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-06 15:53               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-06 16:12                 ` Steven Whitehouse
2019-09-06 17:07                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-06 17:14                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-06 21:19                       ` David Howells
2019-09-06 17:14                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-05 18:37     ` Steven Whitehouse
2019-09-05 18:51       ` Ray Strode
2019-09-05 20:09         ` David Lehman
2019-09-05 18:33   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman

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