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From: Song Liu <songliubraving@fb.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Networking <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, bpf <bpf@vger.kernel.org>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@kernel.org>,
	"Daniel Borkmann" <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	Kernel Team <Kernel-team@fb.com>,
	"Lorenz Bauer" <lmb@cloudflare.com>, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	LSM List <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 bpf-next 1/4] bpf: unprivileged BPF access via /dev/bpf
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:10:16 +0000
Message-ID: <D4040C0C-47D6-4852-933C-59EB53C05242@fb.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrUpVMrk7aaf0trfg9AfZ4fy279uJgZH7V+gZzjFw=hUxA@mail.gmail.com>



> On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:07 PM Song Liu <songliubraving@fb.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Andy,
>> 
>>> On Jul 27, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Song Liu <songliubraving@fb.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Andy,
>>> 
>>> 

[...]

>>> 
>> 
>> I would like more comments on this.
>> 
>> Currently, bpf permission is more or less "root or nothing", which we
>> would like to change.
>> 
>> The short term goal is to separate bpf from root, in other words, it is
>> "all or nothing". Special user space utilities, such as systemd, would
>> benefit from this. Once this is implemented, systemd can call sys_bpf()
>> when it is not running as root.
> 
> As generally nasty as Linux capabilities are, this sounds like a good
> use for CAP_BPF_ADMIN.

I actually agree CAP_BPF_ADMIN makes sense. The hard part is to make 
existing tools (setcap, getcap, etc.) and libraries aware of the new CAP.

> 
> But what do you have in mind?  Isn't non-root systemd mostly just the
> user systemd session?  That should *not* have bpf() privileges until
> bpf() is improved such that you can't use it to compromise the system.

cgroup bpf is the major use case here. A less important use case is to 
run bpf selftests without being root. 

> 
>> 
>> In longer term, it may be useful to provide finer grain permission of
>> sys_bpf(). For example, sys_bpf() should be aware of containers; and
>> user may only have access to certain bpf maps. Let's call this
>> "fine grain" capability.
>> 
>> 
>> Since we are seeing new use cases every year, we will need many
>> iterations to implement the fine grain permission. I think we need an
>> API that is flexible enough to cover different types of permission
>> control.
>> 
>> For example, bpf_with_cap() can be flexible:
>> 
>>        bpf_with_cap(cmd, attr, size, perm_fd);
>> 
>> We can get different types of permission via different combinations of
>> arguments:
>> 
>>    A perm_fd to /dev/bpf gives access to all sys_bpf() commands, so
>>    this is "all or nothing" permission.
>> 
>>    A perm_fd to /sys/fs/cgroup/.../bpf.xxx would only allow some
>>    commands to this specific cgroup.
>> 
> 
> I don't see why you need to invent a whole new mechanism for this.
> The entire cgroup ecosystem outside bpf() does just fine using the
> write permission on files in cgroupfs to control access.  Why can't
> bpf() do the same thing?

It is easier to use write permission for BPF_PROG_ATTACH. But it is 
not easy to do the same for other bpf commands: BPF_PROG_LOAD and 
BPF_MAP_*. A lot of these commands don't have target concept. Maybe 
we should have target concept for all these commands. But that is a 
much bigger project. OTOH, "all or nothing" model allows all these 
commands at once.

Well, that being said, I will look more into using write permission 
in cgroupfs. 

Thanks again for all these comments and suggestions. Please let us 
know your future thoughts and insights. 

Song

  reply index

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20190627201923.2589391-1-songliubraving@fb.com>
     [not found] ` <20190627201923.2589391-2-songliubraving@fb.com>
     [not found]   ` <21894f45-70d8-dfca-8c02-044f776c5e05@kernel.org>
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     [not found]               ` <CALCETrXTta26CTtEDnzvtd03-WOGdXcnsAogP8JjLkcj4-mHvg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                 ` <4A7A225A-6C23-4C0F-9A95-7C6C56B281ED@fb.com>
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     [not found]                     ` <514D5453-0AEE-420F-AEB6-3F4F58C62E7E@fb.com>
     [not found]                       ` <1DE886F3-3982-45DE-B545-67AD6A4871AB@amacapital.net>
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     [not found]                             ` <369476A8-4CE1-43DA-9239-06437C0384C7@fb.com>
2019-07-30 20:24                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-31  8:10                                 ` Song Liu [this message]
2019-07-31 19:09                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-02  7:21                                     ` Song Liu
2019-08-04 22:16                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-05  0:08                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-05  5:47                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-05  7:36                                             ` Song Liu
2019-08-05 17:23                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-05 19:21                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-05 21:25                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-05 22:21                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-06  1:11                                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-07  5:24                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-07  9:03                                                         ` Lorenz Bauer
2019-08-07 13:52                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-13 21:58                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-13 22:26                                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2019-08-13 23:24                                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-13 23:06                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-14  0:57                                                             ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-14 17:51                                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-14 22:05                                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-14 22:30                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-14 23:33                                                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-14 23:59                                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-15  0:36                                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-15 11:24                                                                   ` Jordan Glover
2019-08-15 17:28                                                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-15 18:36                                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-15 23:08                                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-16  9:34                                                                           ` Jordan Glover
2019-08-16  9:59                                                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-16 11:33                                                                               ` Jordan Glover
2019-08-16 19:52                                                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-16 20:28                                                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-17 15:02                                                                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-17 15:44                                                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-19  9:15                                                                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-19 17:27                                                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-19 17:38                                                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-15 18:43                                                                       ` Jordan Glover
2019-08-15 19:46                                                           ` Kees Cook
2019-08-15 23:46                                                             ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-16  0:54                                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-16  5:56                                                                 ` Song Liu
2019-08-16 21:45                                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-16 22:22                                                                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-17 15:08                                                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-17 15:16                                                                       ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-17 15:36                                                                         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-17 15:42                                                                           ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-22 14:17                                                         ` Daniel Borkmann
2019-08-22 15:16                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-22 15:17                                                             ` RFC: very rough draft of a bpf permission model Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-22 23:26                                                               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-23 23:09                                                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-26 22:36                                                                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-27  0:05                                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-08-27  0:34                                                                       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2019-08-22 22:48                                                           ` [PATCH v2 bpf-next 1/4] bpf: unprivileged BPF access via /dev/bpf Alexei Starovoitov

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