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From: "Dr. Greg" <greg@enjellic.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	Platform Driver <platform-driver-x86@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	"Christopherson, Sean J" <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
	nhorman@redhat.com, npmccallum@redhat.com, "Ayoun,
	Serge" <serge.ayoun@intel.com>,
	shay.katz-zamir@intel.com, haitao.huang@linux.intel.com,
	Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Svahn, Kai" <kai.svahn@intel.com>,
	mark.shanahan@intel.com,
	Suresh Siddha <suresh.b.siddha@intel.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@infradead.org>,
	Andy Shevchenko <andy@infradead.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v17 18/23] platform/x86: Intel SGX driver
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 04:39:23 -0600
Message-ID: <20181123103923.GA13851@wind.enjellic.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrV4wOpk7wf9+ywd50PekGjfT7LNtwqHhcV08=oxPmKtKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:56:23PM -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:

Good morning to everyone.

> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 3:12 AM Dr. Greg <greg@enjellic.com> wrote:
> > In addition, we are not confident
> > the driver will be useful to anything other then server class hardware
> > and will be incapable of supporting virtually all of the existing SGX
> > hardware in the field.

> I forgot to mention: I have a plain old retail Intel Celeron (I
> think -- it's not in front of me right now) that has Flex LC.  I
> suspect that, going forward, all new Intel CPUs will support Flex
> LC.  I really wish that Intel would document all of the detailed
> capabilities of all their CPUs somewhere.

Interesting, that contradicts the read we had gotten on FLC.

The only specific CPU's that we know of that are acknowledged to have
FLC are the XEON E series in support of the PCE/ECDSA attestation for
data-center use of SGX.

I'm assuming this is a really new system?  If so that matches our
experience with respect to the fact that SGX2/EDMM capable systems
slipped out quietly in early generation NUC SOC's.

Your sentinments are correct with respect to getting solid guidance on
hardware, it is a significant issue, particularly with respect to
SGX.

> There has been some talk of how the driver could support old CPUs.
> It would involve a rather different LE being signed by Intel, but it
> should be more or less transparent to user code if it happens.

I will reply to the LE and driver capability issues in my response to
your earlier e-mail so the thread does not diverge.

Jarkko, when this driver lands it will set the SGX ABI in stone for
Linux.  It would be very, very helpful to the development community if
there was some official guidance from Intel on whether or not FLC will
be a universal feature on all hardware and the date that is going to
happen or has happened.

If this turns out to be an OEM selectable issue via firmware
customizations, things will be even more problematic.

As things stand now, the proposed mainline SGX driver is going to be
useless for a lot of hardware that is out in the field.  Linux has
always had the reputation for supporting legacy hardware so this
directly contravenes that principal and needlessly so.

Dr. Greg

As always,
Dr. Greg Wettstein, Ph.D, Worker
IDfusion, LLC
4206 N. 19th Ave.           Implementing measured information privacy
Fargo, ND  58102            and integrity architectures.
PH: 701-281-1686
FAX: 701-281-3949           EMAIL: gw@idfusion.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability."
                                -- Edsger W. Dijkstra

  reply index

Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20181116010412.23967-1-jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 01/23] x86/sgx: Update MAINTAINERS Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 14:22   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-11-16 15:07     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 20:24       ` Borislav Petkov
2018-11-18  8:20         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 02/23] x86/cpufeatures: Add Intel-defined SGX feature bit Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 14:28   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-11-16 15:13     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 15:18       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 20:53         ` Borislav Petkov
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 03/23] x86/cpufeatures: Add SGX sub-features (as Linux-defined bits) Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 14:37   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-11-16 15:38     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-16 23:31   ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-18  8:36     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 04/23] x86/msr: Add IA32_FEATURE_CONTROL.SGX_ENABLE definition Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 05/23] x86/cpufeatures: Add Intel-defined SGX_LC feature bit Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 06/23] x86/cpu/intel: Detect SGX support and update caps appropriately Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 23:32   ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-18  8:37     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-21 18:17   ` Borislav Petkov
2018-11-24 13:54     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 07/23] x86/mm: x86/sgx: Add new 'PF_SGX' page fault error code bit Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 23:33   ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-18  8:38     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 08/23] x86/mm: x86/sgx: Signal SIGSEGV for userspace #PFs w/ PF_SGX Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 09/23] x86/sgx: Define SGX1 and SGX2 ENCLS leafs Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 10/23] x86/sgx: Add ENCLS architectural error codes Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 11/23] x86/sgx: Add SGX1 and SGX2 architectural data structures Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 12/23] x86/sgx: Add definitions for SGX's CPUID leaf and variable sub-leafs Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 13/23] x86/msr: Add SGX Launch Control MSR definitions Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 17:29   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-18  8:19     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 14/23] x86/sgx: Add wrappers for ENCLS leaf functions Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 15/23] x86/sgx: Enumerate and track EPC sections Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 16/23] x86/sgx: Add functions to allocate and free EPC pages Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 17/23] x86/sgx: Add sgx_einit() for initializing enclaves Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 18/23] platform/x86: Intel SGX driver Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:37   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-11-16 11:23     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 15:06   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 16:22     ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-19 17:19       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 17:39         ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-20 10:58           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-21 15:24             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 18:18         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-20 11:00           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 15:29   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-19 16:19     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 16:59       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-20 12:04         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-22 11:12           ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-22 15:21             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-24 17:21               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-24 20:13                 ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-26 21:15                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-25 14:53                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-25 16:22                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-25 18:55                     ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-25 23:51                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
     [not found]                       ` <D45BC005-5064-4C75-B486-4E43C454E2F6@amacapital.net>
2018-11-26  0:37                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-26 11:00                           ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-26 18:22                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-26 22:16                             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-26 21:51                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-26 23:04                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-27  8:55                         ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-27 16:41                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-27 17:55                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-28 10:49                               ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-28 19:22                                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-10 10:49                                   ` Dr. Greg
2018-12-12 18:00                                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-14 23:59                                       ` Dr. Greg
2018-12-15  0:06                                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-15 23:22                                           ` Dr. Greg
2018-12-17 14:27                                             ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-17 13:28                                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 13:39                                             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 14:08                                               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 14:13                                                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 16:34                                                   ` Dr. Greg
2018-12-17 17:31                                                 ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-17 17:49                                                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 18:09                                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-17 18:23                                                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 18:46                                                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-17 19:36                                                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-27 16:46                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-28 21:52                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-27  7:46                       ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-27 16:36                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-22 20:56             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-23 10:39               ` Dr. Greg [this message]
2018-11-24 16:45                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-28  5:08                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-28  5:38                     ` Jethro Beekman
2018-12-09 17:01         ` Pavel Machek
2018-11-20 11:15     ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-24 16:15       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-24 19:24         ` Dr. Greg
2018-11-26 19:39           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-09 17:01     ` Pavel Machek
2018-12-10 14:46       ` Dr. Greg
2018-12-17 17:45   ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 18:01     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 18:07       ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 18:31         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 18:36       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-17 18:43         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 18:47           ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 19:12             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-17 19:17               ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 19:25                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-17 19:54                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 19:49                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 19:53                   ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 19:55                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-17 20:03                       ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 20:10                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-17 20:15                           ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 22:36                             ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-18  1:40                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 22:20               ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-18  1:39                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18  3:27                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18  5:02                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-18 13:27                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18  4:55                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-18 13:18                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18  4:59                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-18 13:11                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18 15:44                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-18 18:53                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-19  5:00                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-19  5:13                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-21 18:28                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-22  0:01                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-19  4:47                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-19  5:24                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18  1:17               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18  1:31                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 18:48           ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-17 19:09             ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 19:37               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 19:40                 ` Dave Hansen
2018-12-17 19:33             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-17 20:21               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18 13:13                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-18 15:46                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-12-18  5:55   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-12-19  5:22     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 19/23] platform/x86: sgx: Add swapping functionality to the " Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 20/23] x86/sgx: Add a simple swapper for the EPC memory manager Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 21/23] platform/x86: ptrace() support for the SGX driver Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 22/23] x86/sgx: SGX documentation Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-12-03  3:28   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-12-03  9:32     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16  1:01 ` [PATCH v17 23/23] selftests/x86: Add a selftest for SGX Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-16 11:17 ` [PATCH v17 00/23] Intel SGX1 support Jarkko Sakkinen

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