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From: Casey Schaufler <casey@schaufler-ca.com>
To: "Xing, Cedric" <cedric.xing@intel.com>,
	"linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org" <linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org" 
	<linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	"selinux@vger.kernel.org" <selinux@vger.kernel.org>,
	casey@schaufler-ca.com
Cc: "Schaufler, Casey" <casey.schaufler@intel.com>,
	"jmorris@namei.org" <jmorris@namei.org>,
	"luto@kernel.org" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"jethro@fortanix.com" <jethro@fortanix.com>,
	"greg@enjellic.com" <greg@enjellic.com>,
	"sds@tycho.nsa.gov" <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>,
	"jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com"
	<jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>,
	"Christopherson, Sean J" <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 1/3] x86/sgx: Add SGX specific LSM hooks
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:22:03 -0700
Message-ID: <f6f16990-0291-c530-61dd-dcd26525285c@schaufler-ca.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <960B34DE67B9E140824F1DCDEC400C0F6551B975@ORSMSX116.amr.corp.intel.com>

On 6/27/2019 5:47 PM, Xing, Cedric wrote:
>> From: Casey Schaufler [mailto:casey@schaufler-ca.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 4:37 PM
>>>> This code should not be mixed in with the LSM infrastructure.
>>>> It should all be contained in its own module, under security/enclave.
>>> lsm_ema is *intended* to be part of the LSM infrastructure.
>> That's not going to fly, not for a minute.
> Why not, if there's a need for it?
>
> And what's the concern here if it becomes part of the LSM infrastructure.

The LSM infrastructure provides a framework for hooks
and allocation of blobs. That's it. It's a layer for
connecting system features like VFS, IPC and the IP stack
to the security modules. It does not implement any policy
of it's own. We are not going to implement SGX or any other
mechanism within the LSM infrastructure.

>>>  It is going to be shared among all LSMs that would like to track
>> enclave pages and their origins.
>>
>> That's true for InfiniBand, tun and sctp as well. Look at their
>> implementations.
> As far as I can tell, InfiniBand, tun and sctp, all of them seemed used inside SELinux only.

So? 

> If you had a chance to look at v1 of my series, I started by burying everything inside SELinux too. But Stephen pointed out such tracking would be needed by all LSMs so code duplication might be a concern. Thus I responded by moving it into LSM infrastructure.

What you need to do is move all the lsm_ema code into its own
place (which could be security/enclave). Manage your internal
data as you like. LSMs (e.g. SELinux) can call your APIs if
needed. If the LSMs need to store SGX information with the file
structure they need to include that in the space they ask for in
the file blob.


>>> And they could be extended to store more information as deemed
>> appropriate by the LSM module.
>>
>> Which is what blobs are for, but that does not appear to be how
>> you're using either the file blob or your new ema blob.
> A lsm_ema_map pointer is stored in file->f_security.

That's up to the individual security module to decide.

>  Each lsm_ema_map contains a list of lsm_ema structures. In my last patch, SELinux stores a ema_security_struct with every ema, by setting selinux_blob_sizes.lbs_ema_data to sizeof(ema_security_struct).

You are managing the ema map lists. You don't need the LSM
infrastructure to do that.

> ema_security_struct is initialized in selinux_enclave_load(), and checked in enclave_mprotect(), which is a subroutine of selinux_file_mprotect(). BTW, it is alloced/freed automatically by LSM infrastructure in security_enclave_load()/security_file_free().

Do you mean security_enclave_load()/security_enclave_free() ?
There is no way you can possibly have sane behavior if you're
allocation and free aren't tied to the same blob.

>>>  The last patch of this series shows how to extend EMA inside SELinux.
>> I don't see (but I admit the code doesn't make a lot of sense to me)
>> anything you couldn't do in the SELinux code by adding data to the
>> file blob. The data you're adding to the LSM infrastructure doesn't
>> belong there, and it doesn't need to be there.
> You are correct. My v1 did it inside SELinux.
>
> The key question I think is whether only SELinux needs it, or all LSMs need it. Stephen thought it was the latter (and I agree with him) so I moved it into the LSM infrastructure to be shared, just like the auditing code.

You are both right that it doesn't belong in the SELinux code.
It also doesn't belong as part of the LSM infrastructure.

>>>> Not acceptable for the LSM infrastructure. They
>>>> are inconsistent with the way data is used there.
>>> I'm not sure I understand this comment.
>> It means that your definition and use of the lsm_ema_blob
>> does not match the way other blobs are managed and used.
>> The LSM infrastructure uses these entries in a very particular
>> way, and you're trying to use it differently. Your might be
>> able to change the rest of the enclave system to use it
>> correctly, or you might be able to find a different place
>> for it.
> I'm still not sure why you think this (lbs_ema_data) is inconsistent with other blobs. 
>
> Same as all other blobs, an LSM requests it by storing the needed size in it, and is assigned an offset, and the buffer is allocated/freed by the infrastructure. Am I missing anything?

Yes. Aside from allocation and deletion the infrastructure does
nothing with the blobs. The blobs are used only by the security
modules. All other data is maintained and used elsewhere. SGX
specific data needs to me maintained and managed elsewhere.

>>> As I stated in the cover letter, the primary question is how to
>> prevent SGX from being abused as a backdoor to make executable pages
>> that would otherwise not be executable without SGX. Any LSM module
>> unaware of that would leave that "hole" open. So tracking enclave pages
>> will become a common task for all LSMs that care page protections, and
>> that's why I place it inside LSM infrastructure.
>>
>> Page protections are an important part of many security features,
>> but that's beside the point. The LSM system provides mechanism for
>> providing additional restrictions to existing security mechanisms.
>> First, you create the security mechanism (e.g. enclaves) then you
>> add LSM hooks so that security modules (e.g. SELinux) can apply
>> their own policies in addition. In support of this, the LSM blob
>> mechanism allows security modules to maintain their own information
>> about the system components (e.g. file, inode, cred, task) they
>> care about. The LSM infrastructure does not itself provide or
>> support security data or policy. That's strictly for the modules
>> to do.
> Agreed!
>
> EMA doesn't dictate policies for sure. Is it considered "security data"? I'm not sure the definition of "security data" here. It does store some "data", something that multiple LSM modules would need to duplicate if not pulled into a common place. It is meant to be a "helper" data structure, just like the auditing code.

Good example. You'll see that there is no audit code in the
LSM infrastructure. None. No audit data, either. It's all taken
care of in the audit system.



  reply index

Thread overview: 156+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-06-19 22:23 [RFC PATCH v4 00/12] security: x86/sgx: SGX vs. LSM Sean Christopherson
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 01/12] x86/sgx: Use mmu_notifier.release() instead of per-vma refcounting Sean Christopherson
2019-06-20 21:03   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-08 14:57     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-09 16:18       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 02/12] x86/sgx: Do not naturally align MAP_FIXED address Sean Christopherson
2019-06-20 21:09   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-20 22:09     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 03/12] selftests: x86/sgx: Mark the enclave loader as not needing an exec stack Sean Christopherson
2019-06-20 21:17   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 04/12] x86/sgx: Require userspace to define enclave pages' protection bits Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21  1:07   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-21  1:16     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-21 16:42   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-08 16:34     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-08 17:29       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 18:00   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 19:22     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 05/12] x86/sgx: Enforce noexec filesystem restriction for enclaves Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21  1:26   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-07 19:03     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 06/12] mm: Introduce vm_ops->may_mprotect() Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21  1:35   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 07/12] LSM: x86/sgx: Introduce ->enclave_map() hook for Intel SGX Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21  2:28   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-21 16:54   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-25 20:48     ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-27 20:29       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-07 18:01         ` Sean Christopherson
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 08/12] security/selinux: Require SGX_MAPWX to map enclave page WX Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21 17:09   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-25 21:05     ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-27 20:26       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-25 20:19   ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-26 12:49     ` Dr. Greg
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 09/12] LSM: x86/sgx: Introduce ->enclave_load() hook for Intel SGX Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21 17:05   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-25 21:01     ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-25 21:49       ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-27 19:38         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-19 22:23 ` [RFC PATCH v4 10/12] security/selinux: Add enclave_load() implementation Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21 21:22   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-25 21:09     ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-27 20:19       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-28 16:16         ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-28 21:20           ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-29  1:15             ` Stephen Smalley
2019-07-01 18:14               ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-29 23:41       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 17:46         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 17:53           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 18:54             ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 19:03               ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 19:32               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 20:03                 ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-07 18:46                   ` Sean Christopherson
2019-06-25 20:34   ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-19 22:24 ` [RFC PATCH v4 11/12] security/apparmor: " Sean Christopherson
2019-06-19 22:24 ` [RFC PATCH v4 12/12] LSM: x86/sgx: Show line of sight to LSM support SGX2's EAUG Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21 17:18   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-08 14:34     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-06-21  1:32 ` [RFC PATCH v4 00/12] security: x86/sgx: SGX vs. LSM Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-06-27 18:56 ` [RFC PATCH v2 0/3] security/x86/sgx: SGX specific LSM hooks Cedric Xing
2019-07-03 23:16   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-03 23:22     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-03 23:23       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-06  5:04     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-08 14:46       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-07 23:41   ` [RFC PATCH v3 0/4] " Cedric Xing
2019-07-08 15:55     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-08 17:49       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-08 18:49         ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-08 22:26           ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-07 23:41   ` [RFC PATCH v3 1/4] x86/sgx: Add " Cedric Xing
2019-07-07 23:41   ` [RFC PATCH v3 2/4] x86/64: Call LSM hooks from SGX subsystem/module Cedric Xing
2019-07-09  1:03     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-07 23:41   ` [RFC PATCH v3 3/4] X86/sgx: Introduce EMA as a new LSM module Cedric Xing
2019-07-08 16:26     ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-08 17:16       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-08 23:53         ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-09 22:13           ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10  0:10             ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-10  0:55               ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10 21:14                 ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-11 13:51                 ` Stephen Smalley
2019-07-11 15:12                   ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-11 16:11                     ` Stephen Smalley
2019-07-11 16:25                       ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-11 16:32                         ` Stephen Smalley
2019-07-11 23:41                           ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-07 23:41   ` [RFC PATCH v3 4/4] x86/sgx: Implement SGX specific hooks in SELinux Cedric Xing
2019-07-09  1:33     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-09 21:26       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10 15:49     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-10 16:08       ` Jethro Beekman
2019-07-10 18:16         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10 17:54       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-27 18:56 ` [RFC PATCH v2 1/3] x86/sgx: Add SGX specific LSM hooks Cedric Xing
2019-06-27 22:06   ` Casey Schaufler
2019-06-27 22:52     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-27 23:37       ` Casey Schaufler
2019-06-28  0:47         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-28 17:22           ` Casey Schaufler [this message]
2019-06-28 22:29             ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-29  1:37             ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-29 21:35               ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-01 17:57                 ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 19:53                   ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-01 21:45                     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 23:11                       ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-02  7:42                         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-02 15:44                           ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-03  9:46                             ` Dr. Greg
2019-07-03 15:32                               ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-07 13:30                                 ` Dr. Greg
2019-07-09  0:02                                   ` Casey Schaufler
2019-07-09  1:52                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-09 21:16                                       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-11 10:22                                     ` Dr. Greg
2019-07-15 22:23                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-06-28 16:37   ` Stephen Smalley
2019-06-28 21:53     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-29  1:22       ` Stephen Smalley
2019-07-01 18:02         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-29 23:46   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 17:11     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 17:58       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 18:31         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-01 19:36           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-01 19:56             ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-02  2:29               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-07-02  6:35                 ` Xing, Cedric
2019-06-27 18:56 ` [RFC PATCH v2 2/3] x86/sgx: Call LSM hooks from SGX subsystem/module Cedric Xing
2019-06-27 18:56 ` [RFC PATCH v2 3/3] x86/sgx: Implement SGX specific hooks in SELinux Cedric Xing
2019-07-05 16:05 ` [RFC PATCH v4 00/12] security: x86/sgx: SGX vs. LSM Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-08 17:29   ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-08 17:33     ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-09 16:22     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-09 17:09       ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-09 20:41         ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-09 22:25           ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-09 23:11             ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10 16:57               ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-10 20:19         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-10 20:31           ` Sean Christopherson
2019-07-11  9:06             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-10 22:00           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-10 22:16         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-10 23:16           ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-11  9:26             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-11 14:32               ` Stephen Smalley
2019-07-11 17:51                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-07-12  0:08                   ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10  1:28     ` Dr. Greg
2019-07-10  2:04       ` Xing, Cedric
2019-07-10  3:21     ` Jethro Beekman

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