From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4351FC433F5 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 14:46:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1618B60F25 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 14:46:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S244200AbhIGOrJ (ORCPT ); Tue, 7 Sep 2021 10:47:09 -0400 Received: from gate.crashing.org ([63.228.1.57]:50810 "EHLO gate.crashing.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S244071AbhIGOrJ (ORCPT ); Tue, 7 Sep 2021 10:47:09 -0400 Received: from gate.crashing.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gate.crashing.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id 187EfdkK007864; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 09:41:39 -0500 Received: (from segher@localhost) by gate.crashing.org (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id 187EfcpQ007861; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 09:41:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: gate.crashing.org: segher set sender to segher@kernel.crashing.org using -f Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 09:41:38 -0500 From: Segher Boessenkool To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Jakub Jelinek , Florian Weimer , Nathan Chancellor , Masahiro Yamada , Nick Desaulniers , Linux Kbuild mailing list , Linux Kernel Mailing List , clang-built-linux , llvm@lists.linux.dev, linux-toolchains@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [GIT PULL v2] Kbuild updates for v5.15-rc1 Message-ID: <20210907144138.GG1583@gate.crashing.org> References: <20210906154642.GV1583@gate.crashing.org> <20210906172701.GX1583@gate.crashing.org> <87lf49wodu.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <20210906194808.GY1583@gate.crashing.org> <20210906201432.GZ920497@tucnak> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-toolchains@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Sep 06, 2021 at 02:24:39PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > There are some *very* core header files that the kernel cannot include > from outside. That "stdlib.h" thing already came up in the errors I > quoted. > > But I think you'll find that you guys want to include things like > too, and you'll probably add others (? things like > that) simply because they always work fine in user space, and you'd > not even notice. Guess what. We actually test this. We do notice. Except we don't, because all those problems do not actually exist. Long ago there were issues. We do not live long ago now. > I'm pretty sure you guys don't really want to deal with the pain that > is crazy kernel people that have their very bare environment. There are many other users that use freestanding environments. Most of them do use the standard headers. > So you may *think* you want the kernel to use your header files > "because compiler portability". Instead, you should be very thankful > that we don't, and that you don't have to deal with our mess any more > than you already do. We would like it to be *less* pain, *less* unnecessary work, that is why we would like the kernel to use the compiler headers. Instead of what the current patches do: getting rid of more of them, which will end up as more work for everyone. Segher