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From: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>
To: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>
Cc: Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>,
	overlayfs <linux-unionfs@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] Misc. redirect_dir=nofollow fixes
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 16:43:22 +0300
Message-ID: <CAOQ4uxhZ0kx-c_nkP8Njf2ZMY4d2RvWQH0A0gShmA_w3TLzbcQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200716132743.GB422759@redhat.com>

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 4:27 PM Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 04:56:45PM +0300, Amir Goldstein wrote:
> > > > TBH I never really understood the thread that led to redirect_dir=nofollow.
> > > > I don't think anyone has presented a proper use case that can be discussed,
> > >
> > > IIUC, idea was that automated mounting can mount a handcrafted upper on
> > > usb hence allow access to directories on host which are otherwise
> > > inaccessible.
> > >
> >
> > That is an *idea* described by hand waving.
> > That is not a threat I can seriously comment on.
> > How exactly is that USB auto mounted? where to?
> > How is that related to overlay?
> >
> > > > so I just treat this config option as "paranoia" or "don't give me anything that
> > > > very old overlay did not give me".
> > > > Therefore I suggested piggybacking on it.
> > >
> > > Even if it is paranoia, put more unrelated checks under this option does
> > > not make much sense to me. It will make things just more confusing.
> > >
> > > Anyway, redirect_dir=nofollow is a thing of past. Now if you want to
> > > not follow origin, then we first need to have a genuine explanation
> > > of why to do that (and not be driven by just paranoia).
> > >
> > > > Of course if we do, we will need to document that.
> > >
> > > redirect_dir=nofollow resulting in origin not being followed is plain
> > > unintuitive to me. Why not introduce another option if not following
> > > origin is so important.
> > >
> >
> > Because cluttering the user with more and more config options for
> > minor and mostly unimportant behaviors is not ideal either.
> > See what Kconfig help has to say about the config option:
> >
> > config OVERLAY_FS_REDIRECT_ALWAYS_FOLLOW
> >         bool "Overlayfs: follow redirects even if redirects are turned off"
> >         default y
> >
> >        Disable this to get a possibly more secure configuration, but that
> >        might not be backward compatible with previous kernels.
> >
> > That is a VERY generic description that fits not following origin very
> > well IMO, and not following unverified dir origin as well for that matter.
> > Nobody outside overlayfs developers knows what "redirects" means
> > anyway. To me, following non-dir origin sounds exactly the same
> > as following non-dir metacopy redirect or dir redirect. It's just the
> > implementation details that differ.
> >
> > So my claim is that we *can* piggyback on it because I really
> > don't believe anybody is using this config out there for anything
> > other than "to be on the safe side".
>
> On one hand you are saying redirect=nofollow is paranoia, most people
> don't understand it and don't use it. And on top of that you want
> to add more to it. Adding more to something which nobody does not
> understand and uses, sounds like more trouble to me.
>

I am sorry, my POV is exactly the opposite of that.
No need to argue about it though ;-)

> Anyway, before we go further into this, what's the use case. Why
> do you want to provide option to disable following origin for non-dir?
>

I started thinking about this because of the squashfs bug report
(replacing lower layers) for which I had sent a patch to automatically
disable non-dir origin.

Reproducing the same problems with underlying fs with uuid is harder
but not impossible to think of a scenario.
My line of thinking is why should force feed the users with a feature they
didn't ask for if it can break something.
The very least we could do is allow users to opt-out.

But then again, if no one complains, we don't really need to do anything.
I have that feature (no follow origin) anyway for snapshot, but I can enable
it only for the snapshot case, so I don't mind if it can be enabled with
another config option or not - just wanted to put it out there for discussion.

Thanks,
Amir.

  reply index

Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-13 14:19 Amir Goldstein
2020-07-13 14:19 ` [PATCH 1/3] ovl: force read-only sb on failure to create index dir Amir Goldstein
2020-07-14 18:18   ` Vivek Goyal
2020-07-14 18:32     ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-14 18:38       ` Vivek Goyal
2020-07-14 18:45         ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-15 20:04         ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-16  5:00           ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-15 20:03   ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-13 14:19 ` [PATCH 2/3] ovl: fix mount option checks for nfs_export with no upperdir Amir Goldstein
2020-07-14 14:52   ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-14 14:58     ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-14 15:08       ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-14 15:20         ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-15 20:05   ` Miklos Szeredi
2020-07-13 14:19 ` [PATCH 3/3] ovl: do not follow non-dir origin with redirect_dir=nofollow Amir Goldstein
2020-07-14 18:07 ` [PATCH 0/3] Misc. redirect_dir=nofollow fixes Vivek Goyal
2020-07-14 18:42   ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-15 13:06     ` Vivek Goyal
2020-07-15 13:56       ` Amir Goldstein
2020-07-16 13:27         ` Vivek Goyal
2020-07-16 13:43           ` Amir Goldstein [this message]
2020-07-16 15:26             ` Vivek Goyal

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