From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7672DC8301A for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:25:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C97A2083E for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:25:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732595AbgKWQZE (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:25:04 -0500 Received: from mail-ot1-f68.google.com ([209.85.210.68]:35982 "EHLO mail-ot1-f68.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1729881AbgKWQZE (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:25:04 -0500 Received: by mail-ot1-f68.google.com with SMTP id y24so10883659otk.3; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:25:03 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SWzdE85KMSmQ5K6aYMgWVQjn8/tst2VI3dLUnv/55SM=; b=d0x9fulUFNti/Q3+p2aCc9Mj8vilJR5hSMDwfPMJkaMd/8KxtnNigLbLovUuRztxCP KeLToF9LZ7oUH0XS1cGw6j9pAP+ZtskwnZo5PnL5B5Y3O0oc+35Jg2HbKUvdqIUP7K/1 +qkrzgTnvD6THf/m6cQ0zAt0EbvRbP/RPaXzwzCap7igEVu4cbRqb3uS7A9iOXO1NPCc 3+ySAY+cU/5DeYMav0QUAMsiMlTryuJEGc+hzPSdaHA205ucZBwCdATfQ9TaL7lbrNTB htPmeY+sXfFJbCk1KgoKlFvVicivxaMBxOXrbwxr1Iz0mKw0ILDF5m7DKpDj1zKtfFgx wfyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530whLoZvmihqHlmLSbmhu7BRoo6a44D7SSE/tHE0PVAML0gK6G5 Cs4NNTvUT+jqO6JlDsmbOFpm8ib8eDEBbskHJpE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxW9u67TbnPp8ObIChv5a6F+ncd8SoV+BFvs894Bl4MJzyAX0TVAjkpawJr+z1OvIzzPyEcIsCefAg0WelXSFg= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:16f:: with SMTP id 102mr68959otu.206.1606148702991; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:25:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: "Rafael J. Wysocki" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:24:51 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Cc: Miguel Ojeda , Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , "moderated list:SOUND - SOC LAYER / DYNAMIC AUDIO POWER MANAGEM..." , amd-gfx list , bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel , GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx , intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, ACPI Devel Maling List , linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm , linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , "open list:FRAMEBUFFER LAYER" , linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, "open list:LIBATA SUBSYSTEM (Serial and Parallel ATA drivers)" , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "moderated list:ARM/Mediatek SoC..." , Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc , Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, Linux-Renesas , "open list:TARGET SUBSYSTEM" , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, "open list:ULTRA-WIDEBAND (UWB) SUBSYSTEM:" , linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau , op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda , Joe Perches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: [cut] > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Right. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. > > > If some company does not want to pay for that, that's fine, but they > > don't get to be maintainers and claim `Supported`. > > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. > > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. Absolutely. This is just one of the factors involved, but a significant one IMV.