about openthread and 6lowpan

about openthread and 6lowpan

[Sujay G]

 Hi,

I have been testing openThread on Docker. I wanted to use 6Lowpan with openthread.
I assumed openThread would interact with wpan interfaces  and added  wpan interfaces in container namespace  but it did not work.

Then I came across change for 6Lowpan.  Comparison yielded changes in 7 files  vs the latest openThread repositiry
github.com/openthread/openthread/compare/master...linux-wpan:af802154

I manually merged the files and am trying to resolve the errors.

Had few queries regarding the openThread and 6Lowpan

Why was the project (af802154) abandoned ?
Was openThread working with the above 6Lowpan changes ?
Does the current openThread stack support 6Lowpan ? any configuration needs to be enabled ?    or is it the right way to port the  af802154 to current implementation of openthread ?

-Sujay


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Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Michael Richardson]

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Sujay G <sujay.g@hcl.com> wrote:
    > I have been testing openThread on Docker. I wanted to use 6Lowpan with
    > openthread.  I assumed openThread would interact with wpan interfaces
    > and added wpan interfaces in container namespace but it did not work.

    > Then I came across change for 6Lowpan.  Comparison yielded changes in 7
    > files vs the latest openThread repositiry
    > github.com/openthread/openthread/compare/master...linux-wpan:af802154

Why are you asking the linux-wpan ML about openthread patches? :-)

Alex did some patches to make openthread work better with the virtual
interfaces... it's up to the openthread people to adopt them or not.

    > I manually merged the files and am trying to resolve the errors.

    > Had few queries regarding the openThread and 6Lowpan

    > Why was the project (af802154) abandoned ?  Was openThread working with
    > the above 6Lowpan changes ?  Does the current openThread stack support
    > 6Lowpan ? any configuration needs to be enabled ?  or is it the right
    > way to port the af802154 to current implementation of openthread ?

You could rebase it, and maybe you have more influence with the
openthread people than we do.

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [



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Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Alexander Aring]

Hi,

On Sun, Sep 09, 2018 at 04:49:49PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> Sujay G <sujay.g@hcl.com> wrote:
>     > I have been testing openThread on Docker. I wanted to use 6Lowpan with
>     > openthread.  I assumed openThread would interact with wpan interfaces
>     > and added wpan interfaces in container namespace but it did not work.
> 
>     > Then I came across change for 6Lowpan.  Comparison yielded changes in 7
>     > files vs the latest openThread repositiry
>     > github.com/openthread/openthread/compare/master...linux-wpan:af802154
> 
> Why are you asking the linux-wpan ML about openthread patches? :-)
> 

it's okay.

> Alex did some patches to make openthread work better with the virtual
> interfaces... it's up to the openthread people to adopt them or not.
> 

What is does is to run openthread as somewhat "user space stack" with
limited functionality on monitor interfaces. It's good for debugging.

"limited functionality" is e.g. not ack handling, every frame get to
userspace... it's a pain to run productive I think.

I worried, here was somebody who said "it just works for him on node
interfaces", but in this case the kernel run filtering... I am worried
that people using it in this way and don't know what they do.

>     > I manually merged the files and am trying to resolve the errors.
> 
>     > Had few queries regarding the openThread and 6Lowpan
> 
>     > Why was the project (af802154) abandoned ?  Was openThread working with
>     > the above 6Lowpan changes ?  Does the current openThread stack support
>     > 6Lowpan ? any configuration needs to be enabled ?  or is it the right
>     > way to port the af802154 to current implementation of openthread ?
> 
> You could rebase it, and maybe you have more influence with the
> openthread people than we do.

agree.

- Alex

Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Alexander Aring]

Hi,

On Sun, Sep 09, 2018 at 03:05:50PM +0000, Sujay G wrote:
>  Hi,
> 
> I have been testing openThread on Docker. I wanted to use 6Lowpan with openthread.
> I assumed openThread would interact with wpan interfaces  and added  wpan interfaces in container namespace  but it did not work.
> 
> Then I came across change for 6Lowpan.  Comparison yielded changes in 7 files  vs the latest openThread repositiry
> github.com/openthread/openthread/compare/master...linux-wpan:af802154
> 
> I manually merged the files and am trying to resolve the errors.
> 
> Had few queries regarding the openThread and 6Lowpan
> 
> Why was the project (af802154) abandoned ?

I am personally not interested to run openthread as a user space
solution which can be sold as "not use Linux, use mine software".

> Was openThread working with the above 6Lowpan changes ?

With limitations, which can be improved to support more user space
stacks in the wpan subsystem. I used only do testing against their "MLE"
implementation.

> Does the current openThread stack support 6Lowpan ? any configuration needs to be enabled ?    or is it the right way to port the  af802154 to current implementation of openthread ?
> 

"openThread stack support 6Lowpan"

I asking me this question myself. According their MLE implementation
it's a forked standard from IETF draft. So you can't be sure if they ever
changed something in IETF 6LoWPAN, foo which is then a forked standard.

Also according to "MLE", they sold it with the words "MLE" but it wasn't "MLE",
so you can't be sure in any 6LoWPAN protocols as well.

I think openthread are still "good people" because they have an open
implementation. It's totally weird that the standard is closed but there
exist open implementation which seems to be Thread certificated.

Thread works in this case only as user space stack with openthread and a
RAW L2 frame socket layer as AF_PACKET offers you and not in any
productive case because limitations.

---

The right way? It's not, see my other post about my complain why I don't
want to work on openthread as user space stack. [0]

We need to make some library wrapper around openthread and map it to Linux
6LoWPAN/802.15.4 stack.

- Alex

[0] https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wpan/msg04949.html

RE: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Sujay G]

Alex,

I  was able to port your changes to latest open thread  successfully.
I followed the procedure in http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wpan/msg04167.html  to bring up Open Thread  nodes but the nodes were not able to communicate with each other.
Can you provide some pointers on  How to  connect the PHY's ?
I have looked at https://github.com/RIOT-OS/RIOT/pull/5582  but not clear  on how to connect the PHY's using RIOT.
 Can you please share procedure to establish communication between PHY using RIOT?


-Sujay

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-wpan-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-wpan-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Alexander Aring
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 8:37 PM
To: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>
Cc: Sujay G <sujay.g@hcl.com>; linux-wpan@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

Hi,

On Sun, Sep 09, 2018 at 04:49:49PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote:
>
> Sujay G <mailto:sujay.g@hcl.com> wrote:
>     > I have been testing openThread on Docker. I wanted to use 6Lowpan with
>     > openthread.  I assumed openThread would interact with wpan interfaces
>     > and added wpan interfaces in container namespace but it did not work.
>
>     > Then I came across change for 6Lowpan.  Comparison yielded changes in 7
>     > files vs the latest openThread repositiry
>     >
> github.com/openthread/openthread/compare/master...linux-wpan:af802154
>
> Why are you asking the linux-wpan ML about openthread patches? :-)
>

it's okay.

> Alex did some patches to make openthread work better with the virtual
> interfaces... it's up to the openthread people to adopt them or not.
>

What is does is to run openthread as somewhat "user space stack" with limited functionality on monitor interfaces. It's good for debugging.

"limited functionality" is e.g. not ack handling, every frame get to userspace... it's a pain to run productive I think.

I worried, here was somebody who said "it just works for him on node interfaces", but in this case the kernel run filtering... I am worried that people using it in this way and don't know what they do.

>     > I manually merged the files and am trying to resolve the errors.
>
>     > Had few queries regarding the openThread and 6Lowpan
>
>     > Why was the project (af802154) abandoned ?  Was openThread working with
>     > the above 6Lowpan changes ?  Does the current openThread stack support
>     > 6Lowpan ? any configuration needs to be enabled ?  or is it the right
>     > way to port the af802154 to current implementation of openthread ?
>
> You could rebase it, and maybe you have more influence with the
> openthread people than we do.

agree.

- Alex
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The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Sujay G]

Alex,
Just wanted to mention that I am  building on ubuntu -linux.  (End  solution is to run the openthread nodes inside containers and establish communication via fakeLB) .
Wondering if it is possible to connect the PHY devices and establish communication without RIOT? Or is  RIOT required to establish communication between PHY devices  ?

-Sujay

-----Original Message-----
From: Sujay G
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 11:37 AM
To: Alexander Aring <aring@mojatatu.com>; Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>
Cc: linux-wpan@vger.kernel.org
Subject: RE: about openthread and 6lowpan

Alex,

I  was able to port your changes to latest open thread  successfully.
I followed the procedure in http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wpan/msg04167.html  to bring up Open Thread  nodes but the nodes were not able to communicate with each other.
Can you provide some pointers on  How to  connect the PHY's ?
I have looked at https://github.com/RIOT-OS/RIOT/pull/5582  but not clear  on how to connect the PHY's using RIOT.
 Can you please share procedure to establish communication between PHY using RIOT?


-Sujay

-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:linux-wpan-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-wpan-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Alexander Aring
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 8:37 PM
To: Michael Richardson <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca>
Cc: Sujay G <mailto:sujay.g@hcl.com>; mailto:linux-wpan@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

Hi,

On Sun, Sep 09, 2018 at 04:49:49PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote:
>
> Sujay G <mailto:sujay.g@hcl.com> wrote:
>     > I have been testing openThread on Docker. I wanted to use 6Lowpan with
>     > openthread.  I assumed openThread would interact with wpan interfaces
>     > and added wpan interfaces in container namespace but it did not work.
>
>     > Then I came across change for 6Lowpan.  Comparison yielded changes in 7
>     > files vs the latest openThread repositiry
>     >
> github.com/openthread/openthread/compare/master...linux-wpan:af802154
>
> Why are you asking the linux-wpan ML about openthread patches? :-)
>

it's okay.

> Alex did some patches to make openthread work better with the virtual
> interfaces... it's up to the openthread people to adopt them or not.
>

What is does is to run openthread as somewhat "user space stack" with limited functionality on monitor interfaces. It's good for debugging.

"limited functionality" is e.g. not ack handling, every frame get to userspace... it's a pain to run productive I think.

I worried, here was somebody who said "it just works for him on node interfaces", but in this case the kernel run filtering... I am worried that people using it in this way and don't know what they do.

>     > I manually merged the files and am trying to resolve the errors.
>
>     > Had few queries regarding the openThread and 6Lowpan
>
>     > Why was the project (af802154) abandoned ?  Was openThread working with
>     > the above 6Lowpan changes ?  Does the current openThread stack support
>     > 6Lowpan ? any configuration needs to be enabled ?  or is it the right
>     > way to port the af802154 to current implementation of openthread ?
>
> You could rebase it, and maybe you have more influence with the
> openthread people than we do.

agree.

- Alex
::DISCLAIMER::
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Alexander Aring]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 06:06:43AM +0000, Sujay G wrote:
> Alex,
> 
> I  was able to port your changes to latest open thread  successfully.
> I followed the procedure in http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wpan/msg04167.html  to bring up Open Thread  nodes but the nodes were not able to communicate with each other.

Should work like I described there...
Try to sniff via a virtual monitor is there is any communication on the
PHY level.

> Can you provide some pointers on  How to  connect the PHY's ?

Create three monitors and run openthread on two of them. One can be used
as monitor with wireshark. (I think there was an issue with TX and
checksum... which need to be fixed in wireshark, so don't trust if tx
looks broken)

> I have looked at https://github.com/RIOT-OS/RIOT/pull/5582  but not clear  on how to connect the PHY's using RIOT.
>  Can you please share procedure to establish communication between PHY using RIOT?
> 

It works the same, I recently send a new pull request for such feature.

- Alex

Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Alexander Aring]

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 06:57:44AM +0000, Sujay G wrote:
> Alex,
> Just wanted to mention that I am  building on ubuntu -linux.  (End  solution is to run the openthread nodes inside containers and establish communication via fakeLB) .
> Wondering if it is possible to connect the PHY devices and establish communication without RIOT? Or is  RIOT required to establish communication between PHY devices  ?
>

You don't need containers. Only if you use more than one linux IP
interfaces it's needed to avoid internal routing without hitting the mac
layer.

You don't need RIOT, you can use RIOT... you can use whatever you want
to connect to each other... question is if they will understand each
other. For openthread you need their to speak their MLE protocol
otherwise you will not get any communication.

- Alex

RE: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Sujay G]

Alex,

I am referring to  the presentation you gave on  Netdev 2.1 IOT Without Things: Building virtual 6LoWPAN Mesh Networks
I am trying to connect PHY0 and PHY1  as shown in the presentation but so far Iam unable to do so.
I could get only following steps  from the video
echo “add 1 2” > /sys/kernel/debug/fakelb/edges
ip netns exec wpan0 sh ~/host lowpan0 0 &

Can you please provide the sequence of steps you used to connect PHY0 and PHY1 ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander Aring [mailto:aring@mojatatu.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 2:27 AM
To: Sujay G <sujay.g@hcl.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>; linux-wpan@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 06:57:44AM +0000, Sujay G wrote:
> Alex,
> Just wanted to mention that I am  building on ubuntu -linux.  (End  solution is to run the openthread nodes inside containers and establish communication via fakeLB) .
> Wondering if it is possible to connect the PHY devices and establish communication without RIOT? Or is  RIOT required to establish communication between PHY devices  ?
>

You don't need containers. Only if you use more than one linux IP interfaces it's needed to avoid internal routing without hitting the mac layer.

You don't need RIOT, you can use RIOT... you can use whatever you want to connect to each other... question is if they will understand each other. For openthread you need their to speak their MLE protocol otherwise you will not get any communication.

- Alex
::DISCLAIMER::
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: about openthread and 6lowpan

[Alexander Aring]

Hi,

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 01:28:09PM +0000, Sujay G wrote:
> Alex,
> 
> I am referring to  the presentation you gave on  Netdev 2.1 IOT Without Things: Building virtual 6LoWPAN Mesh Networks
> I am trying to connect PHY0 and PHY1  as shown in the presentation but so far Iam unable to do so.
> I could get only following steps  from the video
> echo “add 1 2” > /sys/kernel/debug/fakelb/edges
> ip netns exec wpan0 sh ~/host lowpan0 0 &

this is old api. I wanted to replace debugfs with netlink which I did.
The feature what you are looking for is now upstream in a new driver
named "mac802154_hwsim" - you need a recent kernel...

Having two nodes connected to each other fakelb is enough. The new
driver allows you to run a individual mesh network with 1000 nodes
connected RIOT/Contiki/Linux/openthread/etc.... you need just enough
memory to run it. And I think with 1000 nodes it will run terrible slow,
because each userspace stack need to filter it _in_ userspace. But it's
possible...

> 
> Can you please provide the sequence of steps you used to connect PHY0 and PHY1 ?
> 

With mac802154_hwsim you need to have wpan_hwsim which I think are still
not part of wpan-tools upstream [0]. You need to apply these patches and
then run a recent kernel.

Then load mac802154_hwsim and using the tool which is more self
explained. Sorry I don't have any example currently how to set it up...
but you should try fakelb with 3 nodes, every phy is monitor.

Then on two monitors each running openthread. One monitor runs
wireshark/tshark, Then you should able too see the traffic between the
nodes.

- Alex

[0] https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wpan/msg05122.html