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From: David Ahern <dsahern@gmail.com>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Linux Kernel Network Developers <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	nikita.leshchenko@oracle.com,
	Roopa Prabhu <roopa@cumulusnetworks.com>,
	Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org>,
	Ido Schimmel <idosch@mellanox.com>,
	Jiri Pirko <jiri@mellanox.com>,
	Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@mellanox.com>,
	Alexander Aring <alex.aring@gmail.com>,
	linux-wpan@vger.kernel.org,
	NetFilter <netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 00/17] net: Convert neighbor tables to per-namespace
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 12:13:30 -0600
Message-ID: <dacc9322-fd5a-dfeb-e4f1-7a288fb79886@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zhyfw70m.fsf@xmission.com>

On 7/25/18 11:38 AM, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> 
> Absolutely NOT.  Global thresholds are exactly correct given the fact
> you are running on a single kernel.
> 
> Memory is not free (Even though we are swimming in enough of it memory
> rarely matters).  One of the few remaining challenges is for containers
> is finding was to limit resources in such a way that one application
> does not mess things up for another container during ordinary usage.
> 
> It looks like the neighbour tables absolutely are that kind of problem,
> because the artificial limits are too strict.   Completely giving up on
> limits does not seem right approach either.  We need to fix the limits
> we have (perhaps making them go away entirely), not just apply a
> band-aid.  Let's get to the bottom of this and make the system better.

Eric: yes, they all share the global resource of memory and there should
be limits on how many entries a remote entity can create.

Network namespaces can provide a separation such that one namespace does
not disrupt networking in another. It is absolutely appropriate to do
so. Your rigid stance is inconsistent given the basic meaning of a
network namespace and the parallels to this same problem -- bridges,
vxlans, and ip fragments. Only neighbor tables are not per-device or per
namespace; your insistence on global limits is missing the mark and wrong.

  reply index

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-07-17 12:06 dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 01/17] net/ipv4: rename ipv4_neigh_lookup to ipv4_dst_neigh_lookup dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 02/17] net/neigh: export neigh_find_table dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 03/17] net/ipv4: wrappers for arp table references dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 04/17] net/ipv4: Remove open coded use of arp table dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 05/17] net/ipv6: wrappers for neighbor table references dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 06/17] net/ipv6: Remove open coded use of neighbor table dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 07/17] drivers/net: remove open coding of neighbor tables dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 08/17] net: Remove nd_tbl from ipv6 stub dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 09/17] net: Remove arp_tbl and nd_tbl from headers dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 10/17] net: Add key_len to neighbor constructor dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 11/17] net: Change neigh_table_init and neigh_table_clear signature dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 12/17] net/neigh: Change neigh_xmit to take an address family dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 13/17] net/neighbor: Convert internal functions away from neigh_tables dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 14/17] net/ipv4: Convert arp table to per namespace dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 15/17] net/ipv6: Convert neighbor table to per-namespace dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 16/17] net/decnet: Move " dsahern
2018-07-17 12:06 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 17/17] net/neighbor: Remove neigh_tables and NEIGH enum dsahern
2018-07-17 17:40 ` [PATCH RFC/RFT net-next 00/17] net: Convert neighbor tables to per-namespace Cong Wang
2018-07-17 17:43   ` David Ahern
2018-07-17 17:53     ` Cong Wang
2018-07-17 19:02       ` David Ahern
2018-07-17 20:37         ` Cong Wang
2018-07-18  3:59         ` David Miller
2018-07-19 16:16           ` David Ahern
2018-07-19 17:12             ` Cong Wang
2018-07-24 15:14               ` David Ahern
2018-07-24 17:14                 ` David Miller
2018-07-25 18:23                   ` David Ahern
2018-07-24 22:09                 ` Cong Wang
2018-07-25 12:33                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-07-25 14:06                     ` David Ahern
2018-07-25 17:38                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-07-25 18:13                         ` David Ahern [this message]
2018-07-25 19:17                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-08-13 21:48                             ` David Ahern
2018-08-15  4:36                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-07-26 11:12                         ` David Laight
2018-07-27 16:27                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-07-19  0:54 ` Michael Richardson
2018-07-19 15:49   ` David Ahern
2018-08-12  6:46 ` [RFC/RFT, net-next, " Vasily Averin
2018-08-12 17:37   ` David Ahern

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