Live patching MC at LPC2020?

Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Jiri Kosina]

Hi everybody,

oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans 
for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but 
LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call 
for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:

	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/

for details.

Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and 
travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a 
livepatching miniconf proposal again?

I believe there are still kernel related topics on our plate (like revised 
handling of the modules that has been agreed on in Lisbon and Petr has 
started to work on, the C parsing effort by Nicolai, etc), and at the same 
time I'd really like to include the new kids on the block too -- the 
userspace livepatching folks (CCing those I know for sure are working on 
it).

So, please if you have any opinion one way or the other, please speak up. 
Depending on the feedback, I will be fine handling the logistics of the 
miniconf submission as last year (together with Josh I guess?) unless 
someone else wants to step up and volunter himself :)

(*) which is totally unclear, yes -- for example goverment in my country 
    has been talking for border closure lasting for 1+ years ... but it 
    all depends on how things develop of course).


Thanks,

-- 
Jiri Kosina
SUSE Labs

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Michael Matz]

Hello,

On Fri, 27 Mar 2020, Jiri Kosina wrote:

> oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans 
> for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but 
> LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call 
> for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:
> 
> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/
> 
> for details.
> 
> Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and 
> travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a 
> livepatching miniconf proposal again?

I think that's very optimistic, but in case the conference really can 
happen I think it'd be useful to have such mini-conference (from the 
userspace perspective)


Ciao,
Michael.

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Joe Lawrence]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 02:20:52PM +0100, Jiri Kosina wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans 
> for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but 
> LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call 
> for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:
> 
> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/
> 
> for details.
> 
> Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and 
> travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a 
> livepatching miniconf proposal again?
> 
> I believe there are still kernel related topics on our plate (like revised 
> handling of the modules that has been agreed on in Lisbon and Petr has 
> started to work on, the C parsing effort by Nicolai, etc), and at the same 
> time I'd really like to include the new kids on the block too -- the 
> userspace livepatching folks (CCing those I know for sure are working on 
> it).
> 

Hi Jiri,

First off, I hope everyone is riding out COVID-19 as well as possible,
considering all that's happening.

As for LPC mini-conf topics, I'd be interested in (at least):

- Petr's per-object livepatch POC
- klp-convert status
- objtool hacking
- Nicolai's klp-ccp status
- arch update (arm64, etc)

> So, please if you have any opinion one way or the other, please speak up. 
> Depending on the feedback, I will be fine handling the logistics of the 
> miniconf submission as last year (together with Josh I guess?) unless 
> someone else wants to step up and volunter himself :)
> 
> (*) which is totally unclear, yes -- for example goverment in my country 
>     has been talking for border closure lasting for 1+ years ... but it 
>     all depends on how things develop of course).

Hmm, all good points.  Some conferences have gone virtual to cope with
necessary cancellations, but who knows what things will look like even
at the end of August.  Perhaps we can still do something remotely if the
conditions dictate it.  But my vote would be yes, and let's see what
topics interest folks.

Regards,

-- Joe

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Kamalesh Babulal]

On 4/1/20 2:22 AM, Joe Lawrence wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 02:20:52PM +0100, Jiri Kosina wrote:
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans 
>> for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but 
>> LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call 
>> for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:
>>
>> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
>> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/
>>
>> for details.
>>
>> Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and 
>> travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a 
>> livepatching miniconf proposal again?
>>
>> I believe there are still kernel related topics on our plate (like revised 
>> handling of the modules that has been agreed on in Lisbon and Petr has 
>> started to work on, the C parsing effort by Nicolai, etc), and at the same 
>> time I'd really like to include the new kids on the block too -- the 
>> userspace livepatching folks (CCing those I know for sure are working on 
>> it).
>>
> 
> Hi Jiri,
> 
> First off, I hope everyone is riding out COVID-19 as well as possible,
> considering all that's happening.
> 
> As for LPC mini-conf topics, I'd be interested in (at least):
> 
> - Petr's per-object livepatch POC
> - klp-convert status
> - objtool hacking
> - Nicolai's klp-ccp status
> - arch update (arm64, etc)

Hi Jiri,

I hope everyone is keeping safe. I would be interested in the topics listed
by Joe and in userspace patching. 

> 
>> So, please if you have any opinion one way or the other, please speak up. 
>> Depending on the feedback, I will be fine handling the logistics of the 
>> miniconf submission as last year (together with Josh I guess?) unless 
>> someone else wants to step up and volunter himself :)
>>
>> (*) which is totally unclear, yes -- for example goverment in my country 
>>     has been talking for border closure lasting for 1+ years ... but it 
>>     all depends on how things develop of course).
> 
> Hmm, all good points.  Some conferences have gone virtual to cope with
> necessary cancellations, but who knows what things will look like even
> at the end of August.  Perhaps we can still do something remotely if the
> conditions dictate it.  But my vote would be yes, and let's see what
> topics interest folks.
> 

Regards,
Kamalesh

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Alice ferrazzi]

hello everyone,

> 2020/04/08 19:23、Kamalesh Babulal <kamalesh@linux.vnet.ibm.com>のメール:
> 
> On 4/1/20 2:22 AM, Joe Lawrence wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 02:20:52PM +0100, Jiri Kosina wrote:
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>> oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans
>>>> for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but
>>>> LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call
>>>> for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:
>>>>   https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
>>>>   https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/
>>>> for details.
>>>> Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and
>>>> travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a
>>>> livepatching miniconf proposal again?
>>>> I believe there are still kernel related topics on our plate (like revised
>>>> handling of the modules that has been agreed on in Lisbon and Petr has
>>>> started to work on, the C parsing effort by Nicolai, etc), and at the same
>>>> time I'd really like to include the new kids on the block too -- the
>>>> userspace livepatching folks (CCing those I know for sure are working on
>>>> it).
>> Hi Jiri,
>> First off, I hope everyone is riding out COVID-19 as well as possible,
>> considering all that's happening.
>> As for LPC mini-conf topics, I'd be interested in (at least):
>> - Petr's per-object livepatch POC
>> - klp-convert status
>> - objtool hacking
>> - Nicolai's klp-ccp status
>> - arch update (arm64, etc)
> 
> Hi Jiri,
> 
> I hope everyone is keeping safe. I would be interested in the topics listed
> by Joe and in userspace patching.


I'm also interested in userspace patching.

> 
>>> So, please if you have any opinion one way or the other, please speak up.
>>> Depending on the feedback, I will be fine handling the logistics of the
>>> miniconf submission as last year (together with Josh I guess?) unless
>>> someone else wants to step up and volunter himself :)
>>> (*) which is totally unclear, yes -- for example goverment in my country
>>>   has been talking for border closure lasting for 1+ years ... but it
>>>   all depends on how things develop of course).
>> Hmm, all good points.  Some conferences have gone virtual to cope with
>> necessary cancellations, but who knows what things will look like even
>> at the end of August.  Perhaps we can still do something remotely if the
>> conditions dictate it.  But my vote would be yes, and let's see what
>> topics interest folks.
> 
> Regards,
> Kamalesh

thanks,
Alice

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Petr Mladek]

On Tue 2020-03-31 16:52:04, Joe Lawrence wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 02:20:52PM +0100, Jiri Kosina wrote:
> > Hi everybody,
> > 
> > oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans 
> > for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but 
> > LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call 
> > for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:
> > 
> > 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
> > 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/
> > 
> > for details.
> > 
> > Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and 
> > travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a 
> > livepatching miniconf proposal again?

The conference is going to be an online event.


> As for LPC mini-conf topics, I'd be interested in (at least):
> 
> - Petr's per-object livepatch POC
> - klp-convert status
> - objtool hacking
> - Nicolai's klp-ccp status
> - arch update (arm64, etc)
 
> Hmm, all good points.  Some conferences have gone virtual to cope with
> necessary cancellations, but who knows what things will look like even
> at the end of August.  Perhaps we can still do something remotely if the
> conditions dictate it.  But my vote would be yes, and let's see what
> topics interest folks.

It seems that there is interest into sharing/discussing some topics.
The question is whether is has to be under the LPC even umbrella.

Advantages of LPC:

   + well defined date
   + more attendees (ARM people, Steven Rostedt ;-)
   + access to some powerful video conference tool
   + access to another LPC content
   + support for the conference in the long term


Advantages of self-organized event:

   + less paperwork?
   + cheaper?
   + only interested people invited
   + date after summer holidays
   + more time for the discussion

I am in the favor of self organized event. For me, LPC is much less
interesting without the personal contact and hallway conversations.
All the LPC date is not ideal for me.

Best Regards,
Petr

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Alice]

Hello,

On 6/25/20 3:59 PM, Petr Mladek wrote:
> On Tue 2020-03-31 16:52:04, Joe Lawrence wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 02:20:52PM +0100, Jiri Kosina wrote:
>>> Hi everybody,
>>>
>>> oh well, it sounds a bit awkward to be talking about any conference plans
>>> for this year given how the corona things are untangling in the world, but
>>> LPC planning committee has issued (a) statement about Covid-19 (b) call
>>> for papers (as originally planned) nevertheless. Please see:
>>>
>>> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/
>>> 	https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/7/abstracts/
>>>
>>> for details.
>>>
>>> Under the asumption that this Covid nuisance is over by that time and
>>> travel is possible (and safe) again -- do we want to eventually submit a
>>> livepatching miniconf proposal again?
> The conference is going to be an online event.
>
>
>> As for LPC mini-conf topics, I'd be interested in (at least):
>>
>> - Petr's per-object livepatch POC
>> - klp-convert status
>> - objtool hacking
>> - Nicolai's klp-ccp status
>> - arch update (arm64, etc)
>   
>> Hmm, all good points.  Some conferences have gone virtual to cope with
>> necessary cancellations, but who knows what things will look like even
>> at the end of August.  Perhaps we can still do something remotely if the
>> conditions dictate it.  But my vote would be yes, and let's see what
>> topics interest folks.
> It seems that there is interest into sharing/discussing some topics.
> The question is whether is has to be under the LPC even umbrella.
>
> Advantages of LPC:
>
>     + well defined date
>     + more attendees (ARM people, Steven Rostedt ;-)
>     + access to some powerful video conference tool
>     + access to another LPC content
>     + support for the conference in the long term
>
>
> Advantages of self-organized event:
>
>     + less paperwork?
>     + cheaper?
>     + only interested people invited
>     + date after summer holidays
>     + more time for the discussion

As they are both online events,
I personally have no preference on this.

Thanks,
Alice

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Josh Poimboeuf]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 08:59:43AM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
> On Tue 2020-03-31 16:52:04, Joe Lawrence wrote:
> It seems that there is interest into sharing/discussing some topics.
> The question is whether is has to be under the LPC even umbrella.
> 
> Advantages of LPC:
> 
>    + well defined date
>    + more attendees (ARM people, Steven Rostedt ;-)
>    + access to some powerful video conference tool
>    + access to another LPC content
>    + support for the conference in the long term
> 
> 
> Advantages of self-organized event:
> 
>    + less paperwork?
>    + cheaper?
>    + only interested people invited
>    + date after summer holidays
>    + more time for the discussion
> 
> I am in the favor of self organized event. For me, LPC is much less
> interesting without the personal contact and hallway conversations.
> All the LPC date is not ideal for me.

I'd prefer LPC proper, as it would be easier (infrastructure is already
taken care of) and more inclusive (in the past we often got good
feedback from outside the direct livepatch community).  And it's only
$50 US.

But to be honest I have doubts about the usefulness of any online
conference, so either way may be equally useless ;-)

-- 
Josh

Re: Live patching MC at LPC2020?

[Michael Matz]

Hello,

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, Josh Poimboeuf wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 08:59:43AM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
> > On Tue 2020-03-31 16:52:04, Joe Lawrence wrote:
> > It seems that there is interest into sharing/discussing some topics.
> > The question is whether is has to be under the LPC even umbrella.
> > 
> > Advantages of LPC:
> > 
> >    + well defined date
> >    + more attendees (ARM people, Steven Rostedt ;-)
> >    + access to some powerful video conference tool
> >    + access to another LPC content
> >    + support for the conference in the long term
> > 
> > 
> > Advantages of self-organized event:
> > 
> >    + less paperwork?
> >    + cheaper?
> >    + only interested people invited
> >    + date after summer holidays
> >    + more time for the discussion
> > 
> > I am in the favor of self organized event. For me, LPC is much less
> > interesting without the personal contact and hallway conversations.
> > All the LPC date is not ideal for me.
> 
> I'd prefer LPC proper, as it would be easier (infrastructure is already
> taken care of) and more inclusive (in the past we often got good
> feedback from outside the direct livepatch community).  And it's only
> $50 US.

Yeah, I think having more attendees would be valuable.

> But to be honest I have doubts about the usefulness of any online 
> conference, so either way may be equally useless ;-)

Indeed.  OTOH our fellow openSUSE guys seemed to have held a fairly 
successful virtual summit earlier this year with some in-development 
virtual-conferencing software that does more than just video/audio 
streaming ( https://requiredmagic.com/roundtable/ ).  In particular the 
possibility to have interactive Q&A with the presenter during and after 
the allotted talk slot seemed to have made up for hallway discussions.

Maybe that's a viable way.  (I personally wasn't at the virtual summit to 
know for sure, but the experience report from some of them was quite 
positive; I know nothing about the conferencing software of LPC)


Ciao,
Michael.