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From: "James A. Sutherland" <jas88@cam.ac.uk>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@mandrakesoft.com>,
	Dan Hollis <goemon@anime.net>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Oliver Xymoron <oxymoron@waste.org>,
	Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Persistent module storage [was Linux 2.4 Status / TODO page]
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:42:12 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <00110616471600.01646@dax.joh.cam.ac.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <00110615242102.01541@dax.joh.cam.ac.uk> <10109.973518003@redhat.com> <23007.973524894@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <23007.973524894@redhat.com>

On Mon, 06 Nov 2000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> jas88@cam.ac.uk said:
> >  Irrelevant. The current mixer settings don't matter: what matters is
> > that the driver does not change them.
> 
> It does matter. The sound driver needs to be able to _read_ the current 
> levels.

So do so. That's a hardware/driver issue. If the hardware is broken, put
a workaround in the driver for that hardware (make the driver persistent,
as Horst suggested, perhaps). Don't kludge the kernel to mask hardware
bugs.

> Almost all mixer programs will start by doing this, to set the 
> slider to the correct place.

Yippee. As we all know, implementing GUI volume controls
and putting the slider in the right place is a kernel function,
and nothing to do with userspace...

If you want your volume control applet to be able to read the
current volume settings, even on buggy hardware which can't
really do that, put the kludge in userspace. Or if you really want,
put it in your driver for buggy hardware, in the way Horst suggested.

> > > The driver needs to reset the card to the desired levels. 
> 
> > What desired levels? The only desired levels are the current ones,
> > which the driver does not and (sometimes) cannot know. Leave well
> > alone.
> 
> It does not know them. Correct. But with persistent module storage, it 
> _could_ know them.

No it cannot. The desired levels have not been defined: there are no
desired levels to determine! Don't tamper with settings you don't need
to. 

> It cannot know them the _first_ time the module is 
> loaded after booting. That's fine. On subsequent loads, it can and 
> should DTRT.

The right thing in this context is not to screw with hardware settings
unless and until it is given settings to set. Do not set values arbitrarily:
set only the values you are explicitly given. Anything else is simply
a bug in your driver.


James.
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2000-11-06 16:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-11-03 15:09 Linux 2.4 Status / TODO page (Updated as of 2.4.0-test10) tytso
2000-11-03 15:53 ` Alan Cox
2000-11-03 16:55   ` Andi Kleen
2000-11-03 19:03     ` kuznet
2000-11-03 21:03   ` David Ford
2000-11-03 21:10     ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-03 21:51       ` David Ford
2000-11-04  1:27         ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-04  0:14       ` Alan Cox
2000-11-04  1:24         ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-04  2:37         ` David Ford
2000-11-07 20:21     ` tytso
2000-11-07 19:23       ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-03 21:37   ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 19:28     ` Paul Gortmaker
2000-11-07 20:17   ` tytso
2000-11-07 19:21     ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-03 16:09 ` Philipp Rumpf
2000-11-03 18:36 ` loop device hangs Christian van Enckevort
2000-11-03 22:20 ` Linux 2.4 Status / TODO page (Updated as of 2.4.0-test10) Jeff Garzik
2000-11-04  2:32   ` David Ford
2000-11-04 13:12   ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2000-11-07 20:40   ` tytso
2000-11-04  1:10 ` James Simmons
2000-11-04  1:38   ` Keith Owens
2000-11-11 22:47   ` tytso
2000-11-04 10:43 ` Keith Owens
2000-11-04 20:34   ` Russell King
2000-11-05 23:15   ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06  0:47     ` Keith Owens
2000-11-06  0:54       ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06  1:28         ` Persistent module storage [was Linux 2.4 Status / TODO page] Keith Owens
2000-11-06  6:39           ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06  7:12           ` Oliver Xymoron
2000-11-06  7:17             ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06  7:25               ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06  7:29                 ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 10:53                 ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 11:03                   ` Dan Hollis
2000-11-06 11:04                     ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 11:35                       ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 11:36                         ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 11:06                     ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 11:09                       ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 11:20                       ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 11:37                       ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 11:40                         ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 11:47                         ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 11:57                           ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 12:03                             ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 13:12                           ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 13:38                             ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 13:56                             ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 13:21                           ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 13:35                           ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 17:12                             ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 17:38                               ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 18:39                               ` Paul Jakma
2000-11-06 21:28                                 ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 18:55                             ` Dan Hollis
2000-11-07  0:18                               ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07  0:27                                 ` Alan Cox
2000-11-07  0:38                                   ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07 12:07                                     ` Alan Cox
2000-11-07 12:13                                       ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07 12:35                                         ` Alan Cox
2000-11-07 12:49                                           ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07 12:52                                             ` Alan Cox
2000-11-07 12:51                                           ` Petko Manolov
2000-11-06 13:40                           ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 15:23                             ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 15:34                             ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 16:31                               ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-06 17:06                                 ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 17:25                                   ` Alon Ziv
2000-11-06 17:34                                     ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 19:49                                       ` Rogier Wolff
2000-11-06 21:34                                         ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 17:25                                   ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 19:27                                     ` Tim Riker
2000-11-06 21:33                                       ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 23:57                                   ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-06 17:23                                 ` Alan Cox
2000-11-08 14:56                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2000-11-06 18:00                                 ` Martin Dalecki
2000-11-06 17:29                                   ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 16:42                               ` James A. Sutherland [this message]
2000-11-06 16:57                                 ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-06 17:01                                   ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 23:54                                     ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-07  8:44                                       ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 17:12                                   ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 17:45                                     ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 18:37                                     ` Paul Jakma
2000-11-07  0:04                                     ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-06 17:08                               ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 17:33                                 ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 23:28                                   ` Gerhard Mack
2000-11-07  0:34                                     ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07  0:42                                       ` Gerhard Mack
2000-11-07  0:43                                         ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07  1:20                                           ` Gerhard Mack
2000-11-07  8:41                                             ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-07  1:44                                       ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-06 17:44                                 ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 17:53                                   ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 20:46                                     ` Evan Jeffrey
2000-11-07  0:23                                       ` James A. Sutherland
2000-11-06 15:15                         ` Martin Dalecki
2000-11-06 17:19                           ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 17:34                             ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 18:22                               ` Oliver Xymoron
2000-11-06 18:37                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06 19:09                                   ` Oliver Xymoron
2000-11-07  0:32                                     ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-06 21:19                                   ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 18:22                         ` Paul Jakma
2000-11-06 21:18                           ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 23:00                             ` Paul Jakma
2000-11-07  2:11                               ` Keith Owens
2000-11-06  7:28               ` Oliver Xymoron
2000-11-06  7:32                 ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06  7:45                   ` Jeff Garzik
2000-11-06  8:00                     ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 13:44                       ` Andrew Pimlott
2000-11-06  7:48                   ` Oliver Xymoron
2000-11-06  8:02                     ` David Woodhouse
2000-11-06 18:09                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2000-11-06 21:17                         ` Alan Cox
2000-11-07  9:55                           ` Helge Hafting
2000-11-07  2:09                         ` Keith Owens
2000-11-07 20:36 ` Linux 2.4 Status / TODO page (Updated as of 2.4.0-test10) tytso
     [not found] <3A06A053.56F09ACB@mandrakesoft.com>
2000-11-06 12:29 ` Persistent module storage [was Linux 2.4 Status / TODO page] Keith Owens
2000-11-06 17:07   ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 18:09     ` Martin Dalecki
2000-11-06 17:30       ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 17:05 ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 18:30   ` Paul Jakma
2000-11-06 21:12   ` Martin Mares
2000-11-07  1:17     ` Horst von Brand
2000-11-07  9:59       ` Martin Mares
2000-11-07 10:59     ` Martin Dalecki
2000-11-07 12:27       ` Alan Cox
2000-11-06 22:48 Wayne.Brown
2000-11-07  7:55 David Feuer

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