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Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:56:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [RFC 0/6] Regressions for "imply" behavior change To: Jason Gunthorpe , Nicolas Pitre Cc: Arnd Bergmann , Jani Nikula , Saeed Mahameed , "narmstrong@baylibre.com" , "masahiroy@kernel.org" , "Laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com" , "leon@kernel.org" , "davem@davemloft.net" , "linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org" , "dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org" , "kieran.bingham+renesas@ideasonboard.com" , "jonas@kwiboo.se" , "netdev@vger.kernel.org" , "airlied@linux.ie" , "jernej.skrabec@siol.net" From: Andrzej Hajda Message-ID: <01f964ae-9c32-7531-1f07-2687616b6a71@samsung.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 21:56:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200416182106.GX5100@ziepe.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: pl X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA01SaUwTQRjN7C7bhVhcSpEJKsaiiZpwKBon0aASoht/IZoYRYGqG+5CWrn0 h4jIIZRTOQo0xIgg0UDQApIQpECBcIhS5JAEahSBUIhUUDnUbhcj/9733vdm3psMhYuUpBMV KrvJymXSCAlpQ9Trfr11DWssCvAoqHBByv5uDK3n6QSo9G0ygfRLCySqHKwBaOjHDI6Ki7oA 6p4bItDihwyA0nOfCNDDlQocDTaVkmhKqySQZmYeQ4bJESukzfJHuvJtSD09TaJCpRE/ac+s ruQBZmHkvoB59WwUY6a6UkmmJK3YiqmrTieZrpz3GNOwPGnFqLvPMRMZneaNwjaMeaPMJxhT nTOjMX0kfG0v2xy/wUaExrJyd68gm5DB8RJBdJM4fmVMTyaCfPoBsKYgfRiuvczCHgAbSkRX AbiQqwL88B1AVV72xmACcLY+yTxQFsu7SV/OLaIrAfyZLeZ3FgA03KvCOMGe9oKTBUqCw2La Bz5KMZHcEk6rBVBfVmkRSHo/XH85SnKHCs2GniRvjibovTA1566FdqCvwsIPFzhaSNvB7uLP BEdb066wYN6No3F6F2wwluI8FsORT8mWyJBup+Dz4RLAt/SBhlWTgMf2cLbz1QbeAXvyMwke 34ETVck4b04DUFP7GueFY3C8f8WSBzdHrmly5+lTMHMxG+OfxBaOGO34DLYwr74Q52khTEsR 8du74USfZuNAR1gxsETmAIlqUzHVpjaqTW1U/+8tB0Q1cGRjFJHBrOKQjI1zU0gjFTGyYLfr UZF1wPxJe353fm8ETWvXtICmgGSLMOhEUYDIShqrSIjUAkjhErHQ9oiZEt6QJtxi5VGB8pgI VqEF2ylC4ij0fDxzVUQHS2+y4Swbzcr/qRhl7ZQIntY8netVO18cOPutlik7sy98q0Gz/Mut 1ujt37LWMvtVllvZ2/dH2nHpSvPFcrZgIEkX6KkPbN3TCgwzc+tG8ZdAWVxbw/x+/ahsy9Di 79uOKdVhwztT/cmh9tOZvTvjw16EuQaI/Y6eN4qzlS6hXh7z0w5TDqt2frqOsVjQHC8hFCHS gwdwuUL6F1b/5nugAwAA X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0hTYRjHec9tmzQ5zVkvhiWjoovOzmz6KmYSBudDhdW3ysvQg5puq50t MgjM1HK50Kypy8woCYVuzltKUCumw0ukJes+o4aGc+HoZiptWrBvf378f8/DA48Ql9wgI4QF Gj2n06iKZFQIMbjY/yGmoKc+c9vw7RhkGnFgaOGSXYAan5cR6OV3L4Vuj90D6NXPKRw11A8A 5Jh+RaDZ8QsAVdbcEqDLcy04GuttpJDbZiJQ59QMhiZcThLZLh5G9uZVqGlykkJ1Jg+eGsb+ mbsEWK+zXMB2tL7GWPfAOYq9er6BZNvbKil2oHoUY7t/uEi2ybGf/Xih39+oe4qxj021BOtr X8t2+t4S6aGH5Mk6rUHPReVref0O2WEGKeRMIpIrtifKmbiEjCSFUhabkpzLFRWc4HSxKdny /LF3VwXHeqUn5968pEpALW0EQiGkt8MXrnQjCBFK6BYA33rnMSMQ+flq2Hfdgy/nMDg/bqSW Sx4Af7luLpXC6BToMpuIQJbSafBKhW+phNPNAnhn4Ay2bIyT0OybWBpF0ZvhgvU1FVgt9tuD pbsCmKA3wHPVZ5ZwOJ0By15sDmAxvRI6Gj4TASyiY6B5Rh7AOB0Pm6zLA3F6Hez2NP7LUuj8 VAaqgcQSZFuCFEuQYglSmgHRBqScgVfnqXlGzqvUvEGTJ8/RqtuB/z267L+tPWD0wUEboIVA tkKcvbM+U0KqTvDFahuAQlwmFYcq/Uicqyo+xem0WTpDEcfbgNJ/Wg0eEZ6j9T+bRp/FKJkE lMgkxCXExSPZavF5+skRCZ2n0nOFHHeM0/33MKEoogSUL7TutV1xR41cO7DH+ZCITE8OmU3d F3M/XdH35fQaPGdkqAk/e7y5ospmTzNPrvpT2bXb7V5bWphZjllFsUNweP2eo4sdyNxS6GlN Nj6LLCmd7rPerXNVkeRExvukmuhiNvprm3frqMO3qVPtpB4d/GZYMz1r3JtT0Z4xtRHJCD5f xWzBdbzqL6xp3kE0AwAA X-CMS-MailID: 20200416195625eucas1p18d95d63a8fb2f997d4c2eb63d15726f5 X-Msg-Generator: CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RootMTR: 20200416182112eucas1p1030595f63fe250ff02dbab2707df11e9 X-EPHeader: CA CMS-TYPE: 201P X-CMS-RootMailID: 20200416182112eucas1p1030595f63fe250ff02dbab2707df11e9 References: <20200414152312.GF5100@ziepe.ca> <834c7606743424c64951dd2193ca15e29799bf18.camel@mellanox.com> <874ktj4tvn.fsf@intel.com> <20200416182106.GX5100@ziepe.ca> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 16.04.2020 20:21, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 11:12:56AM -0400, Nicolas Pitre wrote: >> On Thu, 16 Apr 2020, Arnd Bergmann wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Jani Nikula >>> wrote: >>>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2020, Arnd Bergmann wrote: >>>>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 5:25 AM Saeed Mahameed wrote: >>>>>> BTW how about adding a new Kconfig option to hide the details of >>>>>> ( BAR || !BAR) ? as Jason already explained and suggested, this will >>>>>> make it easier for the users and developers to understand the actual >>>>>> meaning behind this tristate weird condition. >>>>>> >>>>>> e.g have a new keyword: >>>>>> reach VXLAN >>>>>> which will be equivalent to: >>>>>> depends on VXLAN && !VXLAN >>>>> I'd love to see that, but I'm not sure what keyword is best. For your >>>>> suggestion of "reach", that would probably do the job, but I'm not >>>>> sure if this ends up being more or less confusing than what we have >>>>> today. >>>> Ah, perfect bikeshedding topic! >>>> >>>> Perhaps "uses"? If the dependency is enabled it gets used as a >>>> dependency. >>> That seems to be the best naming suggestion so far >> What I don't like about "uses" is that it doesn't convey the conditional >> dependency. It could be mistaken as being synonymous to "select". >> >> What about "depends_if" ? The rationale is that this is actually a >> dependency, but only if the related symbol is set (i.e. not n or empty). > I think that stretches the common understanding of 'depends' a bit too > far.. A depends where the target can be N is just too strange. > > Somthing incorporating 'optional' seems like a better choice > 'optionally uses' seems particularly clear and doesn't overload > existing works like depends or select I think the whole misunderstanding with imply is that ppl try to use it as weak 'depend on' but it is weak 'select' - ie it enforces value of implied symbol in contrast to 'depends' which enforces value of current symbol. So if we want to add new symbol 'weak depend' it would be good to stress out that difference. Moreover name imply is already cryptic, adding another keyword which for sure will be cryptic (as there are no natural candidates) will complicate things more. Maybe adding some decorator would be better, like optionally or weak, for example: optionally depends on X optionally select Y Even more readable: depends on X if on depends on Y if enabled Regards Andrzej > > Jason >