From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263752AbTE0Oqq (ORCPT ); Tue, 27 May 2003 10:46:46 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263738AbTE0Oqq (ORCPT ); Tue, 27 May 2003 10:46:46 -0400 Received: from nat9.steeleye.com ([65.114.3.137]:11527 "EHLO hancock.sc.steeleye.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263726AbTE0Oqo (ORCPT ); Tue, 27 May 2003 10:46:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [BK PATCHES] add ata scsi driver From: James Bottomley To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Jens Axboe , Linux Kernel , jgarzik@pobox.com In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9) Date: 27 May 2003 10:59:51 -0400 Message-Id: <1054047595.1975.64.camel@mulgrave> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 2003-05-27 at 10:36, Linus Torvalds wrote: Btw, in case you wonder why I care about names and organization, it's because with the names and organization comes assumptions and expectations. One prime example of this is cdrecord, and the incredible braindamage that the name "SCSI" foisted upon it. Why? Because everybody (ie schily) _knows_ that SCSI is addressed by bus/id/lun, and thinks that anything else is wrong. So you have total idiocies like the "cdrecord -scanbus" crap for finding your device, and totally useless naming that makes no sense in any sane environment. Calling something SCSI when it isn't brings on these kinds of bad things: people make assuptions that aren't sensible or desireable. Names have power. There's baggage and assumptions in a name. In the case of SCSI, there is a _lot_ of baggage. I took this one on board a long time ago. Even in the SCSI world, FC devices don't think in terms of PUN, they think in terms of WWN. If you look at the mid layer (and I don't promise this to be complete yet) we're moving away from referring to things by host/channel/id/lun. Now we just have host/device list in most places. About the only place we convert back to the numbers is to print messages. We're certainly not there yet, since we need to support legacy interfaces like /proc/scsi/scsi. But eventually you'll probably see us using the sysfs name instead of the id (FC devices will probably stuff WWNs in here, other things may use numbers) and lun (not sure how we'll represent SCSI-3 LUN hierarchies yet). Hopefully, it will be possible to make the mid layer entirely unaware of any id/lun distinction so it could be configured for a flatter host/device space instead. James