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From: Pat LaVarre <p.lavarre@ieee.org>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: "Phillip Lougher" <phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <willy@debian.org>,
	"Erez Zadok" <ezk@cs.sunysb.edu>,
	"Jörn Engel" <joern@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>,
	"Kallol Biswas" <kbiswas@neoscale.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: partially encrypted filesystem
Date: 09 Dec 2003 16:40:54 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1071013254.24032.13.camel@patibmrh9> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1070883425.31993.80.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com>

> Even if you were going to admit to having a block size of 64KiB to the
> layers above you,

Within pdt x05 dvd/ cd, as contrasted with pdt x00 hdd/ flash, since
1999 we have an ansi t10 paper standard for a device to report bytes per
write block inequal to bytes per read block i.e. the 1999 mmc x0020
RandomWritable "feature" that describes a disc in a drive.

I haven't yet seen an fs run in Linux that bothers to fetch this plug 'n
play data, hence my op x46 GPCMD_GET_CONFIGURATION patches of
linux-scsi.

> you just can't _do_ atomic replacement of blocks,
> which is required for normal file systems to operate correctly.

Google tells me cd-rw and dvd+rw likewise do not support random writing
without load balancing e.g.

http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/
http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/#udf

"... As you might know DVD+RW media can sustain only around 1000
overwrites. The thing about fully fledged file systems is that every
read [or tight bunch of 'em] is accompanied by corresponding i-node
update or in other words a write! ..."

> These characteristics of flash have often been dealt with by
> implementing a 'translation layer' -- a kind of pseudo-filesystem --
> which pretends to be a block device with the normal 512-byte
> atomic-overwrite behaviour. You then use a traditional file system on
> top of that emulated block device. 

Ick.

Naive read-modify-write to raise bytes-per-write-block passed-thru drops
thruput like 7X in the benchmarks I've seen.

Pat LaVarre



  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-12-09 23:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 51+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-12-03 21:07 partially encrypted filesystem Kallol Biswas
2003-12-03 21:44 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-12-03 23:20   ` bill davidsen
2003-12-03 21:44 ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-04  0:08   ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-04  1:25     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-12-04  2:08       ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-04  3:59       ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-12-04  2:37     ` Charles Manning
2003-12-04 14:17     ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-04 15:20       ` Linus Torvalds
2003-12-04 16:07         ` Phillip Lougher
2003-12-04 17:26         ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-04 18:20           ` Phillip Lougher
2003-12-04 18:40             ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-04 19:41             ` Erez Zadok
2003-12-05 11:20               ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-05 16:16                 ` Erez Zadok
2003-12-05 19:14                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2003-12-05 19:47                     ` Erez Zadok
2003-12-05 20:28                       ` Matthew Wilcox
2003-12-05 21:38                         ` Pat LaVarre
2003-12-06  0:15                         ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-12-06  1:35                           ` Pat LaVarre
2003-12-06  2:39                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-06 11:43                             ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-12-07  0:04                               ` Shaya Potter
2003-12-08 14:08                               ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-06  0:50                         ` Phillip Lougher
2003-12-08 11:37                           ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-08 13:44                             ` phillip
2003-12-08 14:07                               ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-10  1:16                               ` [OT?]Re: " Charles Manning
2003-12-10 17:45                                 ` Phillip Lougher
2003-12-09 23:40                             ` Pat LaVarre [this message]
2003-12-10  0:07                             ` Pavel Machek
2003-12-10  1:28                               ` Pat LaVarre
2003-12-10  2:13                               ` Charles Manning
2003-12-05 19:58                     ` Pat LaVarre
2003-12-08 11:28             ` David Woodhouse
2003-12-08 13:49               ` phillip
2003-12-04 19:18           ` David Wagner
2003-12-05 13:02             ` Jörn Engel
2003-12-05 17:28               ` Frank v Waveren
2003-12-05 23:59               ` David Wagner
2003-12-19 15:01     ` Rik van Riel
2003-12-04  3:10 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-12-04 18:16 ` Hans Reiser
2003-12-06 19:56 Pat LaVarre
2003-12-06 22:07 ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2003-12-10  3:22 Valient Gough

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