From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1760129AbcCDVBA (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Mar 2016 16:01:00 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:58844 "EHLO mout.kundenserver.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1759071AbcCDVA6 (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Mar 2016 16:00:58 -0500 From: Arnd Bergmann To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Cc: isdn@linux-pingi.de, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, Jonathan Corbet , Greg Kroah-Hartman , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, "David S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 22:00:17 +0100 Message-ID: <18726591.PV3KNmkGar@wuerfel> User-Agent: KMail/4.11.5 (Linux/3.16.0-10-generic; KDE/4.11.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <56D9D189.8080206@linux-pingi.de> References: <1456945629-1793533-1-git-send-email-arnd@arndb.de> <1659125.tHp8H942OG@wuerfel> <56D9D189.8080206@linux-pingi.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Anyvfr04yrVRKGQL93xsEza2WE96cS7ztXLlQeg5jGXifiKTFUC IrnsakmvItn7wW4kB19gZU5aqRtmj+BMy4XO+4en3dfm9SfTHQzms3Gxd97pS7lkqQLmC4z VyBfTx4jggxfcsvz+vMIh+dOsydbO6OwPUb5mJquWY2hRAuGxRQ6Fr2wcpMps93N5ZWJYPc 8Ux6WLpq+8lJvc3Tc0/uw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:QDUMatLKYAM=:NBCXYAprWJfKc/eAuUosRd rz3WiRNii1sq18qoUF9+U9XwSlSg/DZIImhGIolE9Cyrj8noa2gGmq9QAsZVSvaRA004pXZWR UWWgMHVDxqZicmOMqPs6dFgF8Amjk4lNRBsk9I7bAgCaCgCcrxyjKloWI4HMfg8saG0/+oC4c ZxBwDkuxJZSSQlMR6zGTtxEmGLamPk2qNnZdQ6cf8Sp15tRQfdoM1mxq3J2Bm4SMkdflibrZ7 sHx7ExrkMg6AV1rTUmKC66ODqrbMLkcU0MVOwh/jfSr6B1yUqn90SEhhTHcT4WikrLFxdyXeC r/TK45PLEQ/+kvd5QU+9/lS1OLpb6brWq6kdt3Ik6S8/6YRSr5oKIhI8+U4kl+FknRgpt174Q k4/IA4qc4xWp7uZVq/9XrvyuiOjJoHJiUH6Pz7zZDU02+dat3WHy6wejw2rySo9jJDuRNBd/t ixY508VZTyL50pKCruXOgi5PJWijAe7I9utqrWfee7FmI4Qze9Af/xwGjvCuZhB6FYeHmb8iX /K88XBidiUhIHI0NYk2VCvIBC+qTLtoz3w53m14W4jgMPf+bfN2lo8y+iKycBqJ6Po8YT8Tu/ LjBFuvxJmJxKoIjqz8KMyxf6wiMVsg1o3UQTFsxylcDFQuFhiL5/x8Sj0SKDcm9Vu1GBU8H5z PKPgotuKKwuE0bx5AnyH0Drx4DNXwzkPwJVWHbxZ6mSy7UJIMUGwn5kqZdpzPOI9M5cu1JpRQ DsXmxiWC9Sf0sMQY Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Friday 04 March 2016 19:18:49 isdn@linux-pingi.de wrote: > Am 04.03.2016 um 16:24 schrieb Arnd Bergmann: > > On Thursday 03 March 2016 09:30:38 isdn@linux-pingi.de wrote: > >> Hi Arnd, > >> I fully agree and ack. > >> Thanks for the work. > >> > > > > I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting: > > > > * move hisax to staging > > * remove i4l support from gigaset > > * move i4l core to staging > > > > while I initially thought that i4l as a whole is not just unmaintained > > but also more or less unused, patch 19cebbcb04c8 ("isdn: Partially > > revert debug format string usage clean up") came in that indicated that > > there are still users that even send patches for hisax, and that > > made me doubt whether we could consider it obsolete enough. > > > > Any thoughts on this? If you like, I can send those too. > > I4L is still in use on some sides and here is no 100% replacement (net > via RAW IP mode, terminal via X.75). I see. > This week I got some question from a big retail chain in Germany about > migration. I never know that they are using this stuff (for initial > setup of remote shops). Just for more background, do you know how old the kernel is that they (or other i4l users you know of) are currently using? > So I would not drop i4l yet, maybe we should propose this for 2018. > I4L is not so usefull for NT mode, which is very popular nowadays for > gateways into the new full IP world. Some design ins with mISDN here, > mostly in the embedded area. Ok, with a planned 2018 removal date I think we can consider moving it all to staging now, that would give at least everyone who still uses modern kernels a warning ahead of time so they can either plan the migration away from i4l (or away from ISDN in other cases), as well as a chance for us to hear about any remaining active users and whether they need a later removal date. In the TODO file for the active ISDN drivers, I have listed 2017 after the longterm kernel as the date for the projected removal. If we decide to move the rest of I4L to staging with a date of 2018 (after the longterm release), that gives users at least until 2020 before they stop seeing upstream bug fixes for a kernel with an included i4l, and many are probably stuck with running unsupported older kernels anyway. For reference, the currently largest provider of ISDN phone lines is Deutsche Telekom, and they plan to disconnect their last user in 2018, while Vodafone Germany said they will continue their service until 2022, but my interpretation of their website fine print is that this is only true for expensive S2M connections that few people use. Arnd