From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A19AEB64D7 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:53:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230044AbjFTWxy (ORCPT ); Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:53:54 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:48572 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229941AbjFTWw4 (ORCPT ); Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:52:56 -0400 Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [IPv6:2607:fcd0:100:8a00::2]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A32491703; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1687301566; bh=zs2PR8BnoBNeCG8m9yaBb0c55LdBttZyLue3jnCjvnE=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=hhLTYSLaQEJJCXbKmfhm2W7yZCBqjWGxOLPHfogIMLaiGGv/1HWr8raKXtQGFs44u a1XFq2fBt0husKXHQ3h02yuWf1lcQI9NwfvERQiUGeFmqn5nTQZy+rJe5BHf9Yn/jg qN5ruyXMrGGm8umyS6G1cZilpmn+anIyrO10oqaU= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A543B12819DC; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id IfQ-VT9XKtPc; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:52:46 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1687301564; bh=zs2PR8BnoBNeCG8m9yaBb0c55LdBttZyLue3jnCjvnE=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=r3LnEOvh0IY2cCDJNP2XrVdZXinOFnWOgYKM/bn3fmW4jCk6H5t44RjS+KksZRnlZ zjD0dxc882ViaeFLh5v9SDjlOUWxzFOJMFVplCvHHXbQPXb0n0R4cfrLSpv1fAGDwG qoVbc/T2mD9qpIUqwik4dm22dqZCWLEZ59aLAieY= Received: from lingrow.int.hansenpartnership.com (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::c14]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 563271281446; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a631328115eaecbfebf8e435b9224bf2ff248af.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [Tech-board-discuss] [PATCH] Documentation: Linux Contribution Maturity Model and the wider community From: James Bottomley To: Finn Thain Cc: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, tech-board-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:52:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: <7fef2bbb-4c5a-52b8-8e85-400a8fbb8786@linux-m68k.org> References: <7fef2bbb-4c5a-52b8-8e85-400a8fbb8786@linux-m68k.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.42.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 2023-06-20 at 13:50 +1000, Finn Thain wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jun 2023, James Bottomley wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 07:41:57PM +1000, Finn Thain wrote: > > > The Linux Contribution Maturity Model methodology is notionally > > > based on the Open source Maturity Model (OMM) which was in turn > > > based on the Capability Maturity Model Integration (CMMI). > > > > > > According to Petrinja et al., the goal of the OMM was to extend > > > the CMMI so as to be useful both for companies and for > > > communities [1][2].  However, the Linux Contribution Maturity > > > Model considers only companies and businesses. > > > > That's not a correct characterization.  The model is designed to > > measure and be useful to businesses, but it definitely considers > > the community because it's progress is built around being more > > useful to and working more effectively with the community. > > > > You're right, the characterization I gave does exaggerate the bias. I > shall moderate that if I resubmit the patch. > > > > This patch addresses this bias as it could hinder collaboration > > > with not-for-profit organisations and individuals, which would > > > be a loss to any stakeholder. > > > > I don't really think changing 'Businesses' to 'Organizations' > > entirely addresses what you claim is the bias because individuals > > would still be excluded from the term 'Organizations'.  I also > > don't really think it matters.  Part of the reason this whole thing > > doesn't matter is that sometimes people do know who a contributor > > they work with works for, but most of the time they don't. > > This is not just about patches, it's also about incentives and > influence. I mentioned contributor interaction, which covers influence. I'm not sure what you mean by incentives or how it is covered by changing Businesses -> Organizations. > > > If you really want this to be inclusive, you could change it to > > 'other contributors' but I'm still not sure it's worth it. > > > > > > > > Level 5 is amended to remove the invitation to exercise the same > > > bias i.e. employees rewarded indirectly by other companies. > > > > I also wouldn't remove the bit about seeking upstream feedback on > > employees; I know from personal experience it happens a lot. > > > > If it happens a lot already, why compel employers to seek it? Because it's a sign of open source maturity on behalf of a company. Lots do it, but lots don't. By putting it in the maturity model we want to encourage it. > It's worth noting that the model compels employers to seek "community > member feedback" which is not the same as the "upstream feedback" > that you describe. It isn't? How else does a community express itself except by its agents which are ipso facto community members? Not all community members have identical opinions, but if you talk to several you'll get a good sense of community feedback. James