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* Re: Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently"
@ 2003-01-05  8:02 Albert D. Cahalan
  2003-01-06 17:13 ` Richard Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 134+ messages in thread
From: Albert D. Cahalan @ 2003-01-05  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel; +Cc: rms


Richard Stallman writes:

> Many people think GNU is a collection of tools, because the best known
> among the programs we developed for GNU are tools.  We also developed
> other programs for GNU that are not tools.  But GNU is not just a
> collection of various programs; it's an operating system which in 1992
> was mostly complete.  (See http://www.gnu.org/gnu/the-gnu-project.html.)
>
>     it would be
>     *inaccurate* to say anything but "Linux" when talking about "Linux,
>     the operating system."
>
> The term "operating system" has sometimes been used with the same
> meaning as "kernel", but nowadays when people speak of operating
> systems they typically mean complete systems such as HPUX, Solaris,
> Windows, MacOS, GNU, and GNU/Linux.

By "GNU" you mean the Hurd? That's not nice at all. Just where
did you get your network stack from? How about the bulk of the
hardware drivers?

I think Hurd/Linux or Linux/Hurd would be a proper name for
your kernel. Credit is due, right? Don't be a hypocrite now...

> If you call the system "Linux", you are misinforming other people:
> teaching them a false picture of the system's history.  Some of them
> may become so attached to the false picture that it distorts their
> thinking.  If you call it "GNU/Linux", this won't happen.

Calling the OS "Linux" has nothing to do with teaching anybody
about history. The true historical name for the kernel, given
by Linus, is "Freax". I'm not kidding. An FTP site maintainer
(named Ari Lemmke?) came up with the "Linux" name.

So Freax is our kernel, and Linux is the OS. The kernel has to
report "Linux" as the name of course, since the kernel is the
part of the OS which supplies /proc/version. Using one name
for everything reduces confusion. Regular people have enough
trouble telling the OS apart from the hardware it runs on.
(The "Start" button is part of a PC you know!)

Anyway, "GNU/Linux" inhibits the spread of free software.
Regular people care about how attractive the name sounds.
This alone should be reason enough to drop the crusade.
Ask somebody in marketing, sales, or psychology if you need
help understanding this concept. In addition, the effort
you spend on "GNU/Linux" is noise that dilutes your message
about the value of free software. People have limited
attention; it does no good to get side-tracked on some
personal conflict over a perfectly usable and accepted name.
The listener allows you a limited amount of conflict;
exceed some per-person threshold and you get dismissed
as a nut.







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 134+ messages in thread
* RE: [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him
@ 2003-01-14 20:53 Dow, Benjamin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 134+ messages in thread
From: Dow, Benjamin @ 2003-01-14 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org'

> For nearly 10 years I've read many posts by RMS and the replies that
> follow. RMS's posts seem calm, rational and clearly presented. For the
> most part, the replies are emotional, high strung, and mean spirited
> personal attacks.
> 
> Note that I'm not a card carrying member of the RMS fan club, nor do I
> agree with everything he says.  I'm just an observer noting the striking 
> difference in the tone between RMS's posts and the responses.

Honestly, most people who disagree with him and want to be reasonable will
probably just not reply.  Personally, I get tired of the political
discussions on LKML very quickly; they tend to go over the same old ground,
and in the end, nobody has given in.  Sure, the political issues affect us,
but they get blown way out of proportion.  This list is for technical
discussions, as many people have pointed out before, and I'd like to see it
stay that way.

That being said, I don't really see him as all that rational and clear.
Maybe it's just me, but the words "rhetoric" and "dogma" spring to mind.
I'm not trying to attack him personally; I think that he's contributed a lot
to the community.  But his words are not gospel, and having no choice but to
conform to one man's idea of "free" doesn't sound very free to me, so I hope
he doesn't entirely succeed in his crusade either.

Now why don't we get back to coding?



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 134+ messages in thread
* Re: [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him
@ 2003-01-14 22:14 Ed Vance
  2003-01-14 22:46 ` Andre Hedrick
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 134+ messages in thread
From: Ed Vance @ 2003-01-14 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'linux-kernel'

And now for some craven capitalism ...

Anybody think there is money to be made on a "Celebrity Boxing" match
starring Larry and Richard? 

/me ducks and runs ...

---------------------------------------------------------------- 
Ed Vance              edv (at) macrolink (dot) com
Macrolink, Inc.       1500 N. Kellogg Dr  Anaheim, CA  92807
----------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 134+ messages in thread
* Re: [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him
@ 2003-01-18 16:14 Thomas Hood
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 134+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Hood @ 2003-01-18 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel

RMS wrote:
> I'm glad you appreciate our work, but if you call the system "Linux",
> you lead other people to suppose it was done by Linus.

I think I see now why you have been pursuing this issue like
a abused Pit Bull.  You perceive in the name 'Linux' an implicit
claim that what it denotes is entirely the work of Linus Torvalds.

There is no such implication in it.  As for interpretation,
Linux newbies don't even know that someone named 'Linus Torvalds'
exists, while Linux cognoscenti know perfectly well that
Linus Torvalds didn't write the whole thing.  That leaves the
semi-informed, i.e., journalists, but who cares what they
think?  There is no problem here.

                       IT'S JUST A NAME

-- 
Thomas Hood <jdthood@yahoo.co.uk>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 134+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2003-07-20 22:15 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 134+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-01-05  8:02 Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Albert D. Cahalan
2003-01-06 17:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:37   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-06 19:40     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-06 23:33     ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-07 15:47       ` Disconnect
2003-01-07 13:40     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:26       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-08  8:00         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 13:51           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-09 23:14             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:24               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  5:33               ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-10  6:07                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-10  6:31                   ` Miles Bader
2003-01-10 14:17                 ` Charles Cazabon
2003-01-11  1:36                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  4:06                   ` John Jasen
2003-01-11  7:13                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-08 21:29           ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-09  2:26           ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-09  8:57             ` John Alvord
2003-01-09 15:18               ` What's in a name? Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-09 16:11                 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-09 16:51                   ` venom
2003-01-09 17:48                   ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-10  9:52               ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Richard Stallman
2003-01-10 16:05                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-10 18:38                 ` Names as origin component paths Mark Mielke
2003-01-10 18:41                 ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Rogier Wolff
2003-01-12 11:55                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 12:27                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-13 14:32                     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 17:09                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-13 17:22                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 17:37                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-13 18:48                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-14 18:55                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:06                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-14 19:56                                   ` [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Dax Kelson
2003-01-14 20:02                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-14 20:19                                       ` Olivier Galibert
2003-01-14 20:36                                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-14 20:45                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-15 23:28                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 21:08                                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 21:51                                           ` Chris Funderburg
2003-01-14 22:13                                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-14 22:27                                           ` Wakko Warner
2003-01-15 16:39                                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-16 23:12                                             ` Adrian Bunk
2003-01-15 23:28                                           ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-16  2:51                                             ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-18  0:47                                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-18  0:56                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-19  1:36                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-19  5:55                                                     ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-18  3:01                                                 ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-18 14:23                                                   ` andrea.glorioso
2003-01-20  0:50                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-20  1:46                                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-21 18:17                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-21 18:30                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-21 18:55                                                         ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-07-20  2:42                                                       ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 19:30                                                         ` Brian McGroarty
2003-07-20 22:00                                                           ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-01-16  5:23                                             ` Steve Lee
2003-01-18  0:47                                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-20 13:38                                                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-22  9:59                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-22 10:19                                                     ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-22 11:05                                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-01-22 12:56                                                     ` Dave Jones
2003-01-22 16:21                                                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-23 11:37                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-23 13:17                                                         ` Murray J. Root
2003-01-23 18:15                                                         ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-24  0:41                                                           ` [PATCH] [2.4.20] dead code: remove /proc/sys/vm/kswapd Lamont Granquist
2003-07-20  2:27                                                       ` [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20  8:09                                                         ` Florian Weimer
2003-07-20  8:49                                                           ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 10:55                                                             ` Wichert Akkerman
2003-07-20 21:52                                                               ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 22:09                                                                 ` Wichert Akkerman
2003-07-20 22:38                                                                   ` David Lloyd
2003-01-22 16:44                                                     ` John Alvord
2003-01-23  1:31                                                       ` Nick Matteo
2003-01-20 16:52                                                 ` Jerry Cooperstein
2003-01-22 17:14                                                 ` Jan Harkes
2003-01-14 20:27                                       ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:51                                         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15  8:42                                           ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:42                                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15 12:47                                       ` Gaël Le Mignot
2003-01-14 20:15                                     ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:32                                   ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15 12:44                                   ` Gaël Le Mignot
2003-01-14 22:20                                 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2003-01-13 17:51                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 18:54                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:14             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:39               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-10  0:01               ` Linux/Hurd vs GNU/Linux (was Re: Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently") Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-07 16:18       ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-08  2:29         ` Miles Bader
2003-01-09  7:20           ` "Mother" == "computer-illiterate" Val Henson
2003-01-09  8:05             ` J Sloan
2003-01-09 13:14             ` Miles Bader
2003-01-09 14:35             ` Kent Borg
2003-01-09 19:40             ` Val Henson
2003-01-09 20:21               ` jlnance
2003-01-09 20:30                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-10  1:34                   ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-09 20:46                 ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-09 21:12                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-09 21:11                     ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-12 11:56                   ` Kristian Koehntopp
2003-01-09 23:11               ` Alan Cox
2003-01-09 22:41                 ` John Adams
2003-01-10  1:24                 ` Chris Adams
2003-01-10  2:15                   ` jdow
2003-01-10  3:20                     ` Val Henson
2003-01-10  4:23                     ` Tom Diehl
2003-01-10 10:35                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10  7:04             ` Tim Timmerman
2003-01-09  7:28         ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  6:44           ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-14 20:53 [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Dow, Benjamin
2003-01-14 22:14 Ed Vance
2003-01-14 22:46 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-14 22:54   ` Cort Dougan
2003-01-18 16:14 Thomas Hood

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