From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263818AbTDULum (ORCPT ); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 07:50:42 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263819AbTDULum (ORCPT ); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 07:50:42 -0400 Received: from 81-2-122-30.bradfords.org.uk ([81.2.122.30]:32128 "EHLO 81-2-122-30.bradfords.org.uk") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263818AbTDULul (ORCPT ); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 07:50:41 -0400 From: John Bradford Message-Id: <200304211204.h3LC4VA6000616@81-2-122-30.bradfords.org.uk> Subject: Re: Are linux-fs's drive-fault-tolerant by concept? To: skraw@ithnet.com (Stephan von Krawczynski) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:04:31 +0100 (BST) Cc: john@grabjohn.com (John Bradford), vda@port.imtp.ilyichevsk.odessa.ua, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: <20030421130341.06d60830.skraw@ithnet.com> from "Stephan von Krawczynski" at Apr 21, 2003 01:03:41 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > > Name an IDE or SCSI disk on sale today that doesn't retry on write > > failiure. Forget I said 'Generally do'. > > IBM DMVS18V (SCSI) > Maxtor ATA133 160 GB DiamondMax Plus. > > Maybe they _should_, but I can tell you they in fact sometimes don't > (IBM very, very seldom, Maxtor just about all the time) How do you know those disks don't retry on write failiure? How do you know they aren't retrying and failing? > How do _you_ know that? What makes _you_ argue for what _I_ think is > useful and _my_ sense of security? You are on thin ice ... Linux is an open source operating system, you are welcome to add the feature if you want it. > > We have moved on since the 1980s, and I believe that it is now up to > > the drive firmware, or the block device driver to do this, it has no > > place in a filesystem. > > Interestingly I owned one of those 30 MB MFM Seagate howling drives > back in the 80s. I had no errors on it until I threw it away for its > unbelievable noise rate. Today I throw away one (very low-noise) > disk about every week for shooting yet another fs somewhere near > midnight. > Indeed we moved on, only the direction looks sometimes questionable ... Ask the disk manufacturers for advice. John.