Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

[Hermann Himmelbauer]

Hi,
I currently try installing Linux on an old IBM Laptop. (IBM Thinkpad 340, 
486SLC 25/50 from 1994). The laptop only has 4 MB RAM, so I installed a 
simple Linux distribution on a better computer, recompiled Linux 2.4.20 and 
stripped out everything I could (with menuconfig): No networking. FPU 
emulation. The only "luxury" I left is "ext3" - perhaps this uses a lot of 
memory?

Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
INIT: Entering runlevel:3

The next line is:
INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
...

That's it.

What I want to know is if this happens just because of the low memory (4MB) or 
if there is another reason for this behaviour.

What do you think: What are the minimum requirements for Linux on such a 
laptop (no X, of course, very simple setup): 8MB, 12MB?

		Best Regards,
		Hermann

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x1@aon.at
GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers)
FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9  4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

[Gergely Nagy]

> What I want to know is if this happens just because of the low memory (4MB) or 
> if there is another reason for this behaviour.

There must be another reason, I'm running a 80486/4Mb (Compaq Contura)
with 2.4.20 just fine. Even networking is present. You need lots of
swap, though.

> What do you think: What are the minimum requirements for Linux on such a 
> laptop (no X, of course, very simple setup): 8MB, 12MB?

The very minimum? 4Mb + lots of swap. To make it closer to usable, I'd
say 8Mb. Altough, I had this setup on my Contura: Contura connects to
the main box via plip, another laptop (old Thinkpad) connects to Contura
via ppp, and Contura NATs it through the main box. Meanwhile, I could
run mutt, reading e-mail, and zile, editing some documentation. Both
from screen. And I've been logged into the machine via ssh.

It was a bit slow, but worked. So 4Mb _is_ enough, even for running
Debian sid.

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

[John Bradford]

> > What I want to know is if this happens just because of the low memory (4MB) or 
> > if there is another reason for this behaviour.
> 
> There must be another reason, I'm running a 80486/4Mb (Compaq Contura)
> with 2.4.20 just fine. Even networking is present. You need lots of
> swap, though.
> 
> > What do you think: What are the minimum requirements for Linux on such a 
> > laptop (no X, of course, very simple setup): 8MB, 12MB?
> 
> The very minimum? 4Mb + lots of swap. To make it closer to usable, I'd
> say 8Mb. Altough, I had this setup on my Contura: Contura connects to
> the main box via plip, another laptop (old Thinkpad) connects to Contura
> via ppp, and Contura NATs it through the main box. Meanwhile, I could
> run mutt, reading e-mail, and zile, editing some documentation. Both
> from screen. And I've been logged into the machine via ssh.
> 
> It was a bit slow, but worked. So 4Mb _is_ enough, even for running
> Debian sid.

I missed the original post in this thread, but I can confirm that
2.4.18, 2.4.19, and various 2.5 kernels have worked fine on 4 and 8 MB
RAM, 486 laptops here.

I demonstrated X, the Apache webserver with support for PHP, and Lynx
running in 4 MB of RAM last year.

Quite a lot of useful work can be done in 8 MB RAM, with no swap, and
that allows you to spin down the disk and make the batteries last
longer, (on a laptop).

Have a look at:

http://grabjohn.com/low_spec.php

for some configuration suggestions.

John.

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

[William Lee Irwin III]

On Wed, Apr 09, 2003 at 04:01:55PM +0200, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> I currently try installing Linux on an old IBM Laptop. (IBM Thinkpad 340, 
> 486SLC 25/50 from 1994). The laptop only has 4 MB RAM, so I installed a 
> simple Linux distribution on a better computer, recompiled Linux 2.4.20 and 
> stripped out everything I could (with menuconfig): No networking. FPU 
> emulation. The only "luxury" I left is "ext3" - perhaps this uses a lot of 
> memory?
> Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> The next line is:
> INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> ...
> That's it.
> What I want to know is if this happens just because of the low memory (4MB) or 
> if there is another reason for this behaviour.
> What do you think: What are the minimum requirements for Linux on such a 
> laptop (no X, of course, very simple setup): 8MB, 12MB?

Try using init=/bin/sh, doing swapon manually, and then exec /sbin/init

-- wli

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

[Nuno Silva]

Hello!

Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> 
> Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> 
> The next line is:
> INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> ...
> 
> That's it.

Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type 
(serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)

Regards,
Nuno Silva

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop

[Hermann Himmelbauer]

On Thursday 10 April 2003 04:53, Nuno Silva wrote:
> Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> > INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> >
> > The next line is:
> > INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> > INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> > ...
> >
> > That's it.
>
> Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type
> (serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)

No, I thought of this - in menuconfig I use this:
[*] Virtual terminal
[*]   Support for console on virtual terminal

Moreover the exact same kernel boots in another notebook (P-II, 333 Mhz, 144MB 
Ram) - I simply put the 2.5'' Harddisk in the other Laptop.

Anyway, I'll try the following:

1) Try to get more RAM ( + 8MB, 12MB should be enough - but maybe I'll never 
get this IBM specific DRAM-cards for this old laptop.
2) Kick out ext3 - this could save more memory
3) Try init=/bin/sh and "swapon" manually
4) Use an older or memory optimized kernel

Booting with "mem=4" will probably also help with testing.

Many thanks for your helpful replies!

		Best Regards,
		Hermann

--
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FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9  4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop - Kernel bug?

[Hermann Himmelbauer]

On Thursday 10 April 2003 04:53, Nuno Silva wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> > INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> >
> > The next line is:
> > INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> > INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> > ...
> >
> > That's it.
>
> Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type
> (serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)

Well - by chance we found another old Laptop, an IBM Thinkpad 350 (the old was 
model 340) and found a RAM extension, so we have no 36MB RAM.

But - guess what: The error still persists!

I am quite clueless - maybe it has something to do with the IDE subsystem? We 
put a 4GB 2.5'' HD in this old Laptop, but the harddisk is correctly 
recognized by Linux (also Partition check), grub is also working and it Linux 
also mounts the partition.

Is there any way to get more information out of the kernel?

		Best Regards,
		Hermann

-- 
x1@aon.at
GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers)
FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9  4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop - Kernel bug?

[Andre Hedrick]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:

> On Thursday 10 April 2003 04:53, Nuno Silva wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > > Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> > > INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> > >
> > > The next line is:
> > > INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> > > INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> > > ...
> > >
> > > That's it.
> >
> > Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type
> > (serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)
> 
> Well - by chance we found another old Laptop, an IBM Thinkpad 350 (the old was 
> model 340) and found a RAM extension, so we have no 36MB RAM.
> 
> But - guess what: The error still persists!
> 
> I am quite clueless - maybe it has something to do with the IDE subsystem? We 
> put a 4GB 2.5'' HD in this old Laptop, but the harddisk is correctly 
> recognized by Linux (also Partition check), grub is also working and it Linux 
> also mounts the partition.

So if it works, why do you claim a bug in the IDE subsystem?
Because  it is an easy target and if all else fails, it is must be IDE ?

Get real -- sigh --


Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop - Kernel bug?

[John Bradford]

> 
> On Thursday 10 April 2003 04:53, Nuno Silva wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > > Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> > > INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> > >
> > > The next line is:
> > > INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> > > INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> > > ...
> > >
> > > That's it.
> >
> > Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type
> > (serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)
> 
> Well - by chance we found another old Laptop, an IBM Thinkpad 350 (the old was 
> model 340) and found a RAM extension, so we have no 36MB RAM.
> 
> But - guess what: The error still persists!
> 
> I am quite clueless - maybe it has something to do with the IDE subsystem? We 
> put a 4GB 2.5'' HD in this old Laptop, but the harddisk is correctly 
> recognized by Linux (also Partition check), grub is also working and it Linux 
> also mounts the partition.
> 
> Is there any way to get more information out of the kernel?

What happens if you with with init set to be a shell?  E.G. init=/bin/bash

John.

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop - Kernel bug?

[Hermann Himmelbauer]

On Wednesday 30 April 2003 11:57, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > On Thursday 10 April 2003 04:53, Nuno Silva wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > > > Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> > > > INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> > > >
> > > > The next line is:
> > > > INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> > > > INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > That's it.
> > >
> > > Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type
> > > (serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)
> >
> > Well - by chance we found another old Laptop, an IBM Thinkpad 350 (the
> > old was model 340) and found a RAM extension, so we have no 36MB RAM.
> >
> > But - guess what: The error still persists!
> >
> > I am quite clueless - maybe it has something to do with the IDE
> > subsystem? We put a 4GB 2.5'' HD in this old Laptop, but the harddisk is
> > correctly recognized by Linux (also Partition check), grub is also
> > working and it Linux also mounts the partition.
>
> So if it works, why do you claim a bug in the IDE subsystem?
> Because  it is an easy target and if all else fails, it is must be IDE ?

Well, I basically thought the combination of my recent 4GB harddisk + the old 
IDE hardware causes troubles.

But you're right, it can be anything else - but there is nothing special about 
this old laptop - moreover the error occured in both models. So I just 
guessed that there could be an IDE hardware flaw which is not uncommon with 
old hardware.

But, what else could it be? The console driver? UNIX 98 PTY? Perhaps the math 
emulation (486SL has no coprocessor) makes troubles?

I'm absolutely clueless...

		Best Regards,
		Hermann

-- 
x1@aon.at
GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers)
FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9  4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7

Re: Linux-2.4.20 on a 4 MB Laptop - Kernel bug?

[Hermann Himmelbauer]

On Wednesday 30 April 2003 12:21, John Bradford wrote:
> > On Thursday 10 April 2003 04:53, Nuno Silva wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> > > > Well - anyway, the kernel boots but right stops after:
> > > > INIT: Entering runlevel:3
> > > >
> > > > The next line is:
> > > > INIT: open(/dev/console): Input/output error
> > > > INIT: Id "2" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > That's it.
> > >
> > > Maybe you striped too much and didn't include *any* console type
> > > (serial, vga or framebuffer)? :)
> >
> > Well - by chance we found another old Laptop, an IBM Thinkpad 350 (the
> > old was model 340) and found a RAM extension, so we have no 36MB RAM.
> >
> > But - guess what: The error still persists!
> >
> > I am quite clueless - maybe it has something to do with the IDE
> > subsystem? We put a 4GB 2.5'' HD in this old Laptop, but the harddisk is
> > correctly recognized by Linux (also Partition check), grub is also
> > working and it Linux also mounts the partition.
> >
> > Is there any way to get more information out of the kernel?
>
> What happens if you with with init set to be a shell?  E.G. init=/bin/bash

Well, I would really like to try this - but it seems that this laptop needs a 
special keyboard driver. It has a german keyboard layout and there is no way 
to get some special characters, especially "/".

Normally with german keyboards, "/" is mapped on the "-" key, but not on this 
one - some keys are simply dead, I can also not get the "[" and "\" etc. In 
"grub" there seems to be no way cut&paste the "/" from "root=/dev/hda3"

I will try to generate a bootdisk and append it with "rdev".

		Best Regards,
		Hermann

-- 
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FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9  4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7