From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S262321AbTD3S6D (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:58:03 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S262322AbTD3S6D (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:58:03 -0400 Received: from dialpool-210-214-82-43.maa.sify.net ([210.214.82.43]:22151 "EHLO softhome.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S262321AbTD3S56 (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:57:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:39:19 +0530 From: Balram Adlakha To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Message-ID: <20030430190919.GA10263@localhost.localdomain> References: <20030430135919.GB32300@work.bitmover.com> <20030430172107.GA25347@work.bitmover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030430172107.GA25347@work.bitmover.com> X-GPG-Fingerprint: A977 433E B71E 2D1C 6114 9F33 F390 527D 70D1 2799 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 10:21:07AM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 10:53:52AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Larry McVoy wrote: > >=20 > > > Your post shows that you think that the reaction is bad and you even = say > > > that the reaction is likely. You vigourously disagree with my conclu= sions > > > as to why the reaction is happening, I see that. OK, so let's try it > > > with a question rather than a statement: why are things like the DMCA= and > > > DRM happening? It isn't the open source guys pushing those, obviousl= y, > > > it's the corporations. So why are they doing it? > >=20 > > DRM/DMCA do nothing to address reimplementation (it can't, see all=20 > > previous posts on how it is a LEGAL activity). > >=20 > > In my observation, DRM/DMCA addresses unauthorized audio and video cont= ent > > copying. > >=20 > > So, if Open Source is all about reimplementation, and DRM/DMCA is about= =20 > > "protecting" audio/video content, where is the connection? >=20 > "Trusted Computing/Palladium" stuff is clearly headed in the direction > of encrypting everything, the only place it lands unencrypted is on > your display. I thought that fell under the heading of DRM but maybe > I'm mistaken. >=20 > I believe the point of that is "huh, people are going to copy our program? > OK, well, we're a monopoly, you have use our programs to generate the > data, we encrypt the data and poof! the reimplemented programs are > worthless". >=20 > That line of reasoning, by the way, only works if they are a monopoly, > i.e., it doesn't work real well for BK, there are lots of other source > management systems. But it works very well for things like Word, > that's a de facto standard, contrary to what some people here believe > it is bloody difficult to negotiate a contract in anything but Word. > Try sending a lawyer anything else and you'll see what I mean. >=20 > So I don't agree that the DRM stuff is all about protecting audio/video > content at all, I think it goes much further than that. Maybe I'm > wrong, maybe DRM isn't all about that, but the point remains that there > is lots of activity in the directions I'm describing and whether it > falls under DRM, DMCA, Trusted Computing, Palladium, of BuzzWord2000, > the activity exists. And I think it exists at least in part because > of the threat of the open source reimplementations. I'm starting to > think I'm the only person on this list who thinks that, that may be, > but in the business world that I move in pretty much everyone thinks that. >=20 > The open source thing is a new twist, it's changing the playing field. > That can be good (it has been so far) but it can be bad too if the > corporations get all paranoid, which is what they look like to me. >=20 > What you do about it is an open question. My thought has been to focus > on creating new stuff that creates its own world of users and advocates. > Going back to Word, if there was a word processing system that was better > than Word and people switched to it, then any attempt by Microsoft to lock > up the data is irrelevant. Apply that pattern to any application which > operates on data - if you let any corporation have the best technology and > become a monopoly then they can lock up the data and you're shut out of > the game. That's one of the reasons I sort of think the BK clone attempts > are pointless, we can change the file format or encrypt it and unless > there is some other compelling reason to use the clone, it's irrelevant. > On the other hand, make something different and better and BK becomes > irrelevant (unless we do leapfrog with some new feature/whatever). >=20 > That's what I meant by chasing. If you are chasing the leader you are > automatically more at risk because you are trying to play in the leader's > playing field and they can change the rules to screw you up. You build > a better playing field and you turn the tables, now the leader is the > follower and they have to play by your rules. > --=20 > --- > Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.= com/lm > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ What about the people who cannot use bk because the license doesn't permit them?They feed off the hourly kernel.org snapshots? The BK clone doesn't have to be a clone always, but it has to start off with that coz thats what is being used for linux currently. Maybe that won't be requiredif you change the license to a bit more friendlier one. This thread has become a few metres long now, but it as simple as 'open sou= rce for better software, hidden source for better chances of making money' - -=20 --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+sB9f85BSfXDRJ5kRAneKAJ9RXLAdLgBVl/EwKDc63Jei06/eBgCgq+Gj TzaMmcfR4yQkZFaD2I3O0Wo= =rM1C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA--