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From: Werner Almesberger <wa@almesberger.net>
To: Ahmed Masud <masud@googgun.com>
Cc: Arjan van de Ven <arjanv@redhat.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Jesse Pollard <jesse@cats-chateau.net>,
	Chuck Ebbert <76306.1226@compuserve.com>,
	"viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk" 
	<viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Terje Eggestad <terje.eggestad@scali.com>
Subject: Re: The disappearing sys_call_table export.
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:43:11 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030510154311.F13069@almesberger.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0305101321040.24661-100000@marauder.googgun.com>; from masud@googgun.com on Sat, May 10, 2003 at 01:51:07PM -0400

Ahmed Masud wrote:
> 		yield(random(threshold)); /* yeild is a sleep */
[...]
> That becomes a bit more difficult to time, because the attacker doesn't
> know when the system call will actually perform its own copy_from_user vs.

So the probability of getting through in one try is about (tR+tH)/tH,
where tR is the average random delay, and tH is the time between the
check and the actual access.

If you keep on trying until you get through, you'll succeed on average
after tR^2/tH+tR.

If you make tR = 1 s (that's pretty long, e.g. if you do this to
unlink(2), a rm -rf of the kernel source tree would take about four
hours) and assume that tH is only one microsecond, the race condition
can still be exploited within typically less than one fortnight.

Since the system would be idle most of the time, such a brute-force
attack could easily go unnoticed, even if somebody cares to monitor
the system often enough.

Sounds like voodoo security to me.

- Werner

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________________
 / Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina         wa@almesberger.net /
/_http://www.almesberger.net/____________________________________________/

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-05-10 18:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 207+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-05-08 14:08 The disappearing sys_call_table export Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-08 14:36 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 14:42 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-08 14:56 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-08 15:22   ` Alan Cox
2003-05-08 17:02     ` William Stearns
2003-05-08 18:28     ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-10 14:38     ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 16:50       ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-10 17:51         ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 17:56           ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-10 18:03             ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 18:09             ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 18:43           ` Werner Almesberger [this message]
2003-05-10 18:26         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-05-11 11:01         ` Terje Malmedal
2003-05-11 11:57           ` Ahmed Masud
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-05-16 16:15 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-15  8:16 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-14 23:24 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-15  0:49 ` David Schwartz
2003-05-14  8:41 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-13 14:45 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-13 19:00 ` jjs
2003-05-13 21:44 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-13 14:45 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-13 21:32 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-13 13:58 Yoav Weiss
2003-05-13 22:51 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-13 23:58   ` Yoav Weiss
2003-06-12 23:20     ` Nigel Cunningham
2003-06-15 22:37       ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-13  9:52 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-13 13:32 ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-14  7:44 ` Mike Touloumtzis
2003-05-14 10:34   ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-14 20:58     ` Mike Touloumtzis
2003-05-14 21:32       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-14 21:37         ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-14 21:51           ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-15 13:17         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-15 15:16           ` Chris Ricker
2003-05-15 15:31             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-15 15:33               ` Chris Ricker
2003-05-15 15:46                 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-15 16:21                   ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-15  2:06       ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-13  1:57 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-13 12:24 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-13  1:57 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-13  2:25 ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-12 22:57 Yoav Weiss
2003-05-12 23:58 ` Bryan Andersen
2003-05-13 12:11 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-13 13:44   ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-13 21:26     ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-13 22:21       ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-14 13:05         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-12 21:51 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-12 21:05 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-12 22:12 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-12 21:19   ` Alan Cox
2003-05-12 22:29     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-13 12:31     ` Ahmed Masud
     [not found] <20030512164017$6c09@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-05-12 17:02 ` Pascal Schmidt
2003-05-12 16:32 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-12 16:46 ` Alan Cox
     [not found] <20030511164010$5d34@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-05-12  0:47 ` Ben Pfaff
2003-05-11 20:39 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-11 22:32 ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-11 21:46   ` Alan Cox
2003-05-11 22:57     ` David Schwartz
2003-05-14 21:08       ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-05-11 23:22     ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-11 22:32 ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-11 16:32 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-11 17:20 ` David Wagner
2003-05-11 17:53 ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-10 21:45 Yoav Weiss
2003-05-10 19:32 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-10 19:18 Yoav Weiss
2003-05-10 19:53 ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
2003-05-10 20:06   ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-11  3:54     ` Ahmed Masud
2003-05-10 20:48 ` David Wagner
2003-05-09 21:22 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09 17:07 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09 18:27 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-09 19:02   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-09 19:18     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-09 19:25       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-09 17:07 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09 12:41 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09 12:47 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-09 11:09 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09  9:43 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09  9:11 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09 10:47 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-09  7:50 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09  7:57 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-09  7:50 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-09  7:59 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-09 12:18 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-09 17:07   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-05-10 15:34     ` Alan Cox
2003-05-08 19:43 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-08 19:43 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-08 19:58 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-09 13:53 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-09 14:37   ` Ragnar =?unknown-8bit?Q?Kj=F8rstad?=
2003-05-12 14:19     ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-12 15:56       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 19:43 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-08 19:48 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 21:44 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-07 19:04 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-08  9:58 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-08  9:59   ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-08 10:20     ` viro
2003-05-08 12:54     ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-08 12:58       ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 19:10         ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-05-08 19:15           ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 21:48             ` J.A. Magallon
2003-05-09  7:43               ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
2003-05-09  7:42             ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
2003-05-09  8:08               ` Greg KH
2003-05-09 19:07                 ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
2003-05-07 15:34 petter wahlman
2003-05-07 15:48 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-07 16:00 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-07 16:08   ` petter wahlman
2003-05-07 16:45     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-07 16:59     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-07 18:07       ` petter wahlman
2003-05-07 18:33         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-08  8:58           ` petter wahlman
2003-05-08 15:11             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-05-07 21:27         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-07 17:21     ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-07 16:18 ` Steffen Persvold
2003-05-08 12:23   ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-05-06 20:48 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-06 15:51 Yoav Weiss
2003-05-06  8:45 Yoav Weiss
2003-05-06  9:15 ` David S. Miller
2003-05-06 19:45   ` David Schwartz
2003-05-06 10:06 ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-06 17:01 ` Jerry Cooperstein
2003-05-06 17:45   ` Yoav Weiss
2003-05-05 21:29 Chuck Ebbert
2003-05-05 22:49 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-06  2:23   ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-06  7:27     ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-06  8:21       ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
     [not found] <mailman.1052142720.4060.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2003-05-05 20:50 ` Pete Zaitcev
2003-05-06  2:17   ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-05 13:30 Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-05 13:42 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 14:46   ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-05 13:45 ` viro
2003-05-05 14:29   ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-05  8:19 Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05  8:23 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05  9:33   ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05  9:38     ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-05 10:12       ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05 10:25     ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 11:23       ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05 11:27         ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-05 11:31         ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05 11:33           ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-05 15:53             ` Tigran Aivazian
2003-05-05 14:57               ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 14:59               ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-05 12:52         ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 13:41           ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05 13:43             ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 13:50               ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05 13:54                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-05 13:55                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 14:28                   ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2003-05-05 14:34                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05 15:25                       ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2003-05-06  7:30       ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-05-06  8:14         ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-06  9:21           ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-05-06 11:21             ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-06 11:37               ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-05-06 12:08                 ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-05 11:16     ` Alan Cox
2003-05-05 13:23       ` Terje Eggestad
2003-05-08 12:25       ` Terje Malmedal
2003-05-08 12:29         ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 13:18           ` Terje Malmedal
2003-05-08 14:25             ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-08 15:29               ` Terje Malmedal
2003-05-08 18:13                 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-05-08 19:17                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-09  9:18                   ` Terje Malmedal
2003-05-08 14:58         ` Alan Cox
2003-05-09  8:56           ` Terje Malmedal
2003-05-07  2:14     ` Ben Lau
2003-05-05  8:27 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-05-05  9:01 ` Dmitry A. Fedorov
2003-05-05  9:19   ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-05-05  9:32   ` Arjan van de Ven

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