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* Euro-English
@ 2003-08-05 23:33 Mike Fedyk
  2003-08-06  0:14 ` Euro-English Gene Heskett
  2003-08-06  2:06 ` Euro-English Valdis.Kletnieks
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Mike Fedyk @ 2003-08-05 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel


The European Commission has just announced an
agreement whereby English will be the official
language of the European nation rather than German,
which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government
conceded that English spelling had some room for
improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan
that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c".
Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with
joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the
"k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan
have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond
year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with
the "f". This will make words like fotograf 20%
shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling
kan be expekted to reach the stage where more
komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double
letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate
speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the
silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should
go away.

By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as
replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from
vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil
hav a reil sensibl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil
find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united
urop vil finali kum tru.


If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl. 







----- End forwarded message -----

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-05 23:33 Euro-English Mike Fedyk
@ 2003-08-06  0:14 ` Gene Heskett
  2003-08-06  0:49   ` [OT] Euro-English Mike Fedyk
  2003-08-06  9:16   ` Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
  2003-08-06  2:06 ` Euro-English Valdis.Kletnieks
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Gene Heskett @ 2003-08-06  0:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mike Fedyk, linux-kernel

On Tuesday 05 August 2003 19:33, Mike Fedyk wrote:

[...]

>If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl.

Chuckle...  Some people have way too much time on their hands. :-)

-- 
Cheers, Gene
AMD K6-III@500mhz 320M
Athlon1600XP@1400mhz  512M
99.27% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly
Yahoo.com attornies please note, additions to this message
by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2003 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Euro-English
  2003-08-06  0:14 ` Euro-English Gene Heskett
@ 2003-08-06  0:49   ` Mike Fedyk
  2003-08-06  9:16   ` Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Mike Fedyk @ 2003-08-06  0:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gene Heskett; +Cc: linux-kernel

On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 08:14:31PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 05 August 2003 19:33, Mike Fedyk wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> >If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl.
> 
> Chuckle...  Some people have way too much time on their hands. :-)

That message was of course reformatted removing all of the forward
notices... which took a little time in of itself, but not as much as if I
wrote it in the first place.

And yes, I did forget to put "[OT]" in the subject line.  Sorry.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-05 23:33 Euro-English Mike Fedyk
  2003-08-06  0:14 ` Euro-English Gene Heskett
@ 2003-08-06  2:06 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Valdis.Kletnieks @ 2003-08-06  2:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mike Fedyk; +Cc: linux-kernel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 380 bytes --]

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:33:08 PDT, Mike Fedyk <mfedyk@matchmail.com>  said:
> 
> The European Commission has just announced an
> agreement whereby English will be the official
> language of the European nation rather than German,
> which was the other possibility.

Fortunately, Mark Twain wrote this before the current silliness with copyright
lifetimes took hold in the US... ;)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-06  0:14 ` Euro-English Gene Heskett
  2003-08-06  0:49   ` [OT] Euro-English Mike Fedyk
@ 2003-08-06  9:16   ` Maciej Soltysiak
  2003-08-06 23:14     ` Euro-English jw schultz
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Maciej Soltysiak @ 2003-08-06  9:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gene Heskett; +Cc: Mike Fedyk, linux-kernel

> >If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl.
>
> Chuckle...  Some people have way too much time on their hands. :-)
Oh, come on, it really points something out.
Europe is a place where everybody speaks bad english :)
And people who know english and bad english tend to use bad english.

Regards,
Maciej

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-06  9:16   ` Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
@ 2003-08-06 23:14     ` jw schultz
  2003-08-06 23:45       ` Euro-English Mike Fedyk
                         ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: jw schultz @ 2003-08-06 23:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel

On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 11:16:51AM +0200, Maciej Soltysiak wrote:
> > >If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl.
> >
> > Chuckle...  Some people have way too much time on their hands. :-)
> Oh, come on, it really points something out.
> Europe is a place where everybody speaks bad english :)
> And people who know english and bad english tend to use bad english.

As you have just done ;)

I also disagree.  Many in Europe speak English much better
than those born to it.

-- 
________________________________________________________________
	J.W. Schultz            Pegasystems Technologies
	email address:		jw@pegasys.ws

		Remember Cernan and Schmitt

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-06 23:14     ` Euro-English jw schultz
@ 2003-08-06 23:45       ` Mike Fedyk
  2003-08-07  0:37       ` Euro-English Timothy Miller
  2003-08-07 10:16       ` [OT] Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Mike Fedyk @ 2003-08-06 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jw schultz, linux-kernel

On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 04:14:03PM -0700, jw schultz wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 11:16:51AM +0200, Maciej Soltysiak wrote:
> > > >If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl.
> > >
> > > Chuckle...  Some people have way too much time on their hands. :-)
> > Oh, come on, it really points something out.
> > Europe is a place where everybody speaks bad english :)
> > And people who know english and bad english tend to use bad english.
> 
> As you have just done ;)
> 
> I also disagree.  Many in Europe speak English much better
> than those born to it.

Yes, I have to agree also.  I am a native english speaker, and I have an
Arabic friend who knows english many times better than I do.  Though he does
come to me to make sure his phrases are in acceptable according to modern
english (ie, slang and common phrases).

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-06 23:14     ` Euro-English jw schultz
  2003-08-06 23:45       ` Euro-English Mike Fedyk
@ 2003-08-07  0:37       ` Timothy Miller
  2003-08-07 10:16       ` [OT] Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Timothy Miller @ 2003-08-07  0:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jw schultz; +Cc: linux-kernel



jw schultz wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 11:16:51AM +0200, Maciej Soltysiak wrote:
> 
>>>>If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl.
>>>
>>>Chuckle...  Some people have way too much time on their hands. :-)
>>
>>Oh, come on, it really points something out.
>>Europe is a place where everybody speaks bad english :)
>>And people who know english and bad english tend to use bad english.
> 
> 
> As you have just done ;)
> 
> I also disagree.  Many in Europe speak English much better
> than those born to it.
> 

The trained Linguist in me speaks:

What is "good" English?

Do you mean "broadly understandable"?  Or do you mean "as defined by 
pedants"?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-06 23:14     ` Euro-English jw schultz
  2003-08-06 23:45       ` Euro-English Mike Fedyk
  2003-08-07  0:37       ` Euro-English Timothy Miller
@ 2003-08-07 10:16       ` Maciej Soltysiak
  2003-08-07 10:39         ` Dick Streefland
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Maciej Soltysiak @ 2003-08-07 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jw schultz; +Cc: linux-kernel

> > And people who know english and bad english tend to use bad english.
>
> As you have just done ;)
>
> I also disagree.  Many in Europe speak English much better
> than those born to it.
Yes, but try going skiing to the Alps. Checkout French, Austrian, Italian
side glaciers. And try to get any response more correct than "we pipl buys
tickets, ski lift not works", and so on.

Ask "do you speak english?", and get "no".

Maybe I am exagerating, but decent english was hard to find during my
trips. I was better off using german.

When I once heard a Swiss and an Italian agree that bad english
rules I felt daunted. I am certainly no top-flight english speaker, but
that amazed me. I also realize that in around universities people tend to
know english better. But my view on using english to talk to people i meet
is that I'd better use it

Disclaimer:
My opinions are my hamster's opinions, so blame him as the source of all
evil and take all of this with a grain of salt :-)

Regards,
Maciej

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-07 10:16       ` [OT] Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
@ 2003-08-07 10:39         ` Dick Streefland
  2003-08-07 14:19           ` Herbert Pötzl
  2003-08-08  1:01           ` Clemens Schwaighofer
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dick Streefland @ 2003-08-07 10:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel

Maciej Soltysiak <solt@dns.toxicfilms.tv> wrote:
| Yes, but try going skiing to the Alps. Checkout French, Austrian, Italian
| side glaciers. And try to get any response more correct than "we pipl buys
| tickets, ski lift not works", and so on.

It depends on the part of Europe. Not incidentally, in the countries
you mention, all foreign content shown on televison and in movie
theaters is dubbed. In other countries such as the Scandinavian
countries, The Netherlands and Belgium, almost everything is
sub-titled. I think there is a direct relation between dubbing and the
lack of English language skills.

-- 
Dick Streefland                      ////                      Altium BV
dick.streefland@altium.nl           (@ @)          http://www.altium.com
--------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo---------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-07 10:39         ` Dick Streefland
@ 2003-08-07 14:19           ` Herbert Pötzl
  2003-08-08  1:01           ` Clemens Schwaighofer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Herbert Pötzl @ 2003-08-07 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dick Streefland; +Cc: linux-kernel

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 10:39:05AM -0000, Dick Streefland wrote:
> Maciej Soltysiak <solt@dns.toxicfilms.tv> wrote:
> | Yes, but try going skiing to the Alps. Checkout French, Austrian, Italian
> | side glaciers. And try to get any response more correct than "we pipl buys
> | tickets, ski lift not works", and so on.
> 
> It depends on the part of Europe. Not incidentally, in the countries
> you mention, all foreign content shown on televison and in movie
> theaters is dubbed. In other countries such as the Scandinavian
> countries, The Netherlands and Belgium, almost everything is
> sub-titled. I think there is a direct relation between dubbing and the
> lack of English language skills.

hmm, there is a joke in Austria, where some
obviously polyglot person asks two natives in
several languages for directions ... and gets
no answer at all, when he has left, one of
the natives says to the other: "have you
heard how many languages he spoke?", and the
other replies: "yeah sure, but did it do him
any good?"

so not everybody capable of speaking english
will do so ...

best,
Herbert

> -- 
> Dick Streefland                      ////                      Altium BV
> dick.streefland@altium.nl           (@ @)          http://www.altium.com
> --------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo---------------------------
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-07 10:39         ` Dick Streefland
  2003-08-07 14:19           ` Herbert Pötzl
@ 2003-08-08  1:01           ` Clemens Schwaighofer
  2003-08-08 10:50             ` Maciej Soltysiak
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Clemens Schwaighofer @ 2003-08-08  1:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dick Streefland; +Cc: linux-kernel

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dick Streefland wrote:

> Maciej Soltysiak <solt@dns.toxicfilms.tv> wrote:
> | Yes, but try going skiing to the Alps. Checkout French, Austrian,
Italian
> | side glaciers. And try to get any response more correct than "we
pipl buys
> | tickets, ski lift not works", and so on.
>
> It depends on the part of Europe. Not incidentally, in the countries
> you mention, all foreign content shown on televison and in movie
> theaters is dubbed. In other countries such as the Scandinavian
> countries, The Netherlands and Belgium, almost everything is
> sub-titled. I think there is a direct relation between dubbing and the
> lack of English language skills.
>

er, thats a no. Just look into Japan, they have subbed movies, they have
 dual channel movies on TV (english/japanese) and they really struggle
and fight with even basic english. why? because it is too different to
their own language ...

OTH you might be right for european countries, I always think eg
Scandinavian countries are far superior in english because they see,
watch everything in english on TV, etc ... and I see it on myself, if I
wouldn't have started watching movies in english and reading books in
english I think I would be the same "no inglisch heare" ignorant like a
lot of my friends in Austria are ... adding a second thought to
Japanese, they all WANT to learn japanese desperatly ... its just
horrible difficult for them, weather a lot of austrians are not even
interested in doing so ... "english? why? I don't need it ..." ...
ignorants ...

- --
Clemens Schwaighofer - IT Engineer & System Administration
==========================================================
Tequila Japan, 6-17-2 Ginza Chuo-ku, Tokyo 104-8167, JAPAN
Tel: +81-(0)3-3545-7703            Fax: +81-(0)3-3545-7343
http://www.tequila.jp
==========================================================
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-08  1:01           ` Clemens Schwaighofer
@ 2003-08-08 10:50             ` Maciej Soltysiak
  2003-08-08 12:10               ` Marcus Metzler
  2003-08-09  0:55               ` Jamie Lokier
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Maciej Soltysiak @ 2003-08-08 10:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clemens Schwaighofer; +Cc: Dick Streefland, linux-kernel

> OTH you might be right for european countries, I always think eg
> Scandinavian countries are far superior in english because they see,
> watch everything in english on TV, etc ... and I see it on myself, if I
> wouldn't have started watching movies in english and reading books in
> english I think I would be the same "no inglisch heare" ignorant like a
> lot of my friends in Austria
And that is the conclusion I think. Kids should be encouraged to listen,
watch, read in english. Discouraged to watch dubbed movies. My 6 years old
neice is totally transparent to languages. If she hears something in
english, that's fine, she even repeats the words and frases. If she hears
in japanesse (i showed her anime) that's fine also. Hmm. I am no
child-schrink-wannabe but, if we just encourage kids to be open to every
language, they will just click to the ones they fancy.

Regards,
OT generator/exploder v0.0.1pre1, Maciej :)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-08 10:50             ` Maciej Soltysiak
@ 2003-08-08 12:10               ` Marcus Metzler
  2003-08-09  0:55               ` Jamie Lokier
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Marcus Metzler @ 2003-08-08 12:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Maciej Soltysiak; +Cc: Clemens Schwaighofer, Dick Streefland, linux-kernel

Maciej Soltysiak writes:
 > > OTH you might be right for european countries, I always think eg
 > > Scandinavian countries are far superior in english because they see,
 > > watch everything in english on TV, etc ... and I see it on myself, if I
 > > wouldn't have started watching movies in english and reading books in
 > > english I think I would be the same "no inglisch heare" ignorant like a
 > > lot of my friends in Austria
 > And that is the conclusion I think. Kids should be encouraged to listen,
 > watch, read in english. Discouraged to watch dubbed movies. My 6 years old
 > neice is totally transparent to languages. If she hears something in
 > english, that's fine, she even repeats the words and frases. If she hears
 > in japanesse (i showed her anime) that's fine also. Hmm. I am no
 > child-schrink-wannabe but, if we just encourage kids to be open to every
 > language, they will just click to the ones they fancy.

In Japan they actually have children programs on TV where they speak
(American) English and explain English words to Japanese
children. They also sing English songs. I think that is a good idea
especially considering the difficulties that Japanese have with
English as compared to Europeans whose languages mostly have the same origin. 
If we had such programs in Germany it would probably improve the
overall knowledge of English and the reporters on TV would finally be
able to pronounce Tomb Raider :).
The younger you are the better you are able to learn (not only a
language), so you should start early and if you have fun while
learning that is even better.

Marcus

-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Dr. Marcus O.C. Metzler        |                                   |
|--------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
| mocm@metzlerbros.de            | http://www.metzlerbros.de/        |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [OT] Re: Euro-English
  2003-08-08 10:50             ` Maciej Soltysiak
  2003-08-08 12:10               ` Marcus Metzler
@ 2003-08-09  0:55               ` Jamie Lokier
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jamie Lokier @ 2003-08-09  0:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Maciej Soltysiak; +Cc: Clemens Schwaighofer, Dick Streefland, linux-kernel

Maciej Soltysiak wrote:
> And that is the conclusion I think. Kids should be encouraged to listen,
> watch, read in english. Discouraged to watch dubbed movies.

I have been told that it makes a big difference which _sounds_ the
kids are exposed to during a certain age range, when they are
developing the ability to distinguish language sounds.  This would
support the subtitles-better-than-dubbing hypothesis, and also explain
why adults find it easier to learn languages with similar sounds to
their childhood languages.

-- Jamie

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2003-08-09  0:56 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-08-05 23:33 Euro-English Mike Fedyk
2003-08-06  0:14 ` Euro-English Gene Heskett
2003-08-06  0:49   ` [OT] Euro-English Mike Fedyk
2003-08-06  9:16   ` Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
2003-08-06 23:14     ` Euro-English jw schultz
2003-08-06 23:45       ` Euro-English Mike Fedyk
2003-08-07  0:37       ` Euro-English Timothy Miller
2003-08-07 10:16       ` [OT] Euro-English Maciej Soltysiak
2003-08-07 10:39         ` Dick Streefland
2003-08-07 14:19           ` Herbert Pötzl
2003-08-08  1:01           ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-08-08 10:50             ` Maciej Soltysiak
2003-08-08 12:10               ` Marcus Metzler
2003-08-09  0:55               ` Jamie Lokier
2003-08-06  2:06 ` Euro-English Valdis.Kletnieks

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