From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S261407AbTI3M2b (ORCPT ); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:28:31 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S261409AbTI3M2b (ORCPT ); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:28:31 -0400 Received: from rth.ninka.net ([216.101.162.244]:12675 "EHLO rth.ninka.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S261407AbTI3M20 (ORCPT ); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:28:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:28:17 -0700 From: "David S. Miller" To: Jens Axboe Cc: schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Kernel includefile bug not fixed after a year :-( Message-Id: <20030930052817.0d0272df.davem@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20030930120629.GM2908@suse.de> References: <200309301157.h8UBvOcd004345@burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de> <20030930120629.GM2908@suse.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:06:29 +0200 Jens Axboe wrote: > I asked you one simple question: when did the kernel/user interface > break, and how? I'll answer for him, about 20 or 30 times during IPSEC development. It's still possible this could change even some more before 2.6.0 final is released if a large enough bug in the IPSEC socket APIs are found in time. But that's not the important issue, the important issue is that a huge number of kernel API interfaces have no equivalent in whatever you consider to be "user usable non-kernel headers". Find me the API defines for the IPSEC configuration socket interfaces in a header file that you think users should be allowed to include. You won't find it Jens, and that's why it drives me nuts when people spit out the "no kernel headers" mantra. Often it simply must be done as a matter of practicality.