From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263861AbTLGLBh (ORCPT ); Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:01:37 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264410AbTLGLBh (ORCPT ); Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:01:37 -0500 Received: from quechua.inka.de ([193.197.184.2]:46250 "EHLO mail.inka.de") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263861AbTLGLBe (ORCPT ); Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:01:34 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:01:22 +0100 From: Eduard Bloch To: Linus Torvalds Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: cdrecord hangs my computer Message-ID: <20031207110122.GB13844@zombie.inka.de> References: <3FD1994C.10607@stinkfoot.org> <20031206084032.A3438@animx.eu.org> <20031206220227.GA19016@work.bitmover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-No-Archive: Yes Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org #include * Linus Torvalds [Sat, Dec 06 2003, 02:32:08PM]: > > Hey, that "piece of crap" has burned one heck of a lot of ISO images of > > Linux over the years. > > And so does windows. That doesn't make it good. But somehow most Windows programers have easy way to deal with devices, they have clear paths to get hardware access where on Linux there is often something not thought out well which ruins your day. Examples? If you have worked on a SCSI generic device and wish to get all the block devices associated with this one in upper level, how do you get that information? I tried to find a way a while ago and it simply sucked. For details: http://bugs.debian.org/93633/ (CDROM TOC cache is not flushed on mount, kernel does not see new sessions on the disk). And don't tell me that I am stupid and I have simply to reject and reinsert the CD as everybody does. It is not mandatory on non-Linux, and why? ;) There must be a more simple way to flush the TOC cache in the block device driver (where it should not be located whatsoever, IMO). Another example: how to get a list of module names for each module corresponding to drivers that have detected hardware? AFAICS there is no policy, no subsystem to manage this and there are no guidelines for the driver writers. The only thing you can do is looking around in procfs, guessing with some hocus pocus. How to assign a network interface name when loading the NIC driver? > > How about a nod of thanks to the author before you tell him you don't > > like his interface? > > I tried to tell him why numbers are bad. Very politely, explaining that a > lot of devices cannot be enumerated by a traditional "bus/dev/lun" scheme. Imagine, there would be an internal mapping between devfs names and "bus/dev/lun" so cdrecord&Co. could query it to get the scsi-generic device name they need. There is almost always a way to a compromise. > He basically cursed at me, and told me that that is how SCSI works. Never > mind that IDE isn't SCSI, and even SCSI doesn't work that way any more > (iSCSI comes to mind). Sorry, but if you drive SCSI protocols over IDE hardware, using the same terminology and the same control methods, why should it not be used as such? Or was it because Windows works that way so we should make it different (worse)? Telling that someone is a dick is easy if you have the absolute power in your area of control, but listening to him and extracting good arguments may make sence sometimes. MfG, Eduard.