From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264141AbTLJV2g (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:28:36 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264152AbTLJV2g (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:28:36 -0500 Received: from dyn-213-36-224-2.ppp.tiscali.fr ([213.36.224.2]:18180 "EHLO nsbm.kicks-ass.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264141AbTLJV2d convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:28:33 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:28:21 +0100 From: Witukind To: Ed Sweetman Cc: mru@kth.se, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: udev sysfs docs Re: State of devfs in 2.6? Message-Id: <20031210222821.25514125.witukind@nsbm.kicks-ass.org> In-Reply-To: <3FD78645.9090300@wmich.edu> References: <200312081536.26022.andrew@walrond.org> <20031208154256.GV19856@holomorphy.com> <3FD4CC7B.8050107@nishanet.com> <20031208233755.GC31370@kroah.com> <20031209061728.28bfaf0f.witukind@nsbm.kicks-ass.org> <20031209075619.GA1698@kroah.com> <1070960433.869.77.camel@nomade> <20031209090815.GA2681@kroah.com> <20031210202354.7a3c429a.witukind@nsbm.kicks-ass.org> <20031210212209.7fce7dae.witukind@nsbm.kicks-ass.org> <3FD78645.9090300@wmich.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:47:01 -0500 Ed Sweetman wrote: > Witukind wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:33:24 +0100 > > mru@kth.se (Måns Rullgård) wrote: > > > > > >>Witukind writes: > >> > >> > >>>On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 10:39:32 +0100 mru@kth.se (Måns Rullgård) > >wrote:>> > >>> > >>>>>Is there a specific case for which people want this feature? > >>>>>Offhand it seems like a slightly odd thing to ask for... > >>>> > >>>>I believe the original motivation for module autoloading was to > >>> > >>>save> memory by unloading modules when their devices were unused. > >>>Loading> them automatically on demand made for less trouble for > >>>users, who> didn't have to run modprobe manually to use the sound > >>>card, or> whatever. This could still be a good thing in embedded > >>>systems.> > >>> > the biggest advantage from modules is the ability to enable/disable > devices with different initialization configurations without > rebooting, including the use of devices that aren't present during > boot or may be added to a system that cant be put down to reboot. > Embedded systems usually do not change, that's just part of being > embedded, modules dont really make sense there unless things like > filesystems and non-device modules never get used at the same time and > memory is limited such that 100KB actually matters. > > > >>>I don't see why it wouldn't be a good thing for regular systems > >>>also. Saving memory is usually a good idea. > > True, but how about we start being good memory users where it counts > the most, like gui's/userspace land and then worry about the sub 1MB > usage that kernels exist in. > > >>The biggest modules are about 100k. Saving 100k of 1 GB doesn't > >>really seem worth any effort. > > > > > > I don't have 1 Gb of memory. On my laptop with 16 mb RAM saving 100k > > is worth the effort. > > Then why do you use a sylpheed, which is gtk instead of something in a > > terminal that uses much less memory (doesn't require xfree86, which > you're probably also using instead of tinyX) and toolkits, pixmaps > etc. > Obviously, 100k is not worth _your_ effort. > > > I'm not saying module use is more memory efficient than not or vice > versa, but if memory usage in the 100K range is going to be the only > argument for autoloading/unloading of modules then it's really _not_ > worth the effort unless someone can give that kind of support without > trying. Your fight for memory efficiency should start where the > inefficiency is the largest, and work it's way down, not the other way > > around. > > > Well first of all, how do you know I am using the laptop right now? I don't use X on it actually, not even tinyX (anyway the video card is not supported by XFree86). Secondly what if I don't like text mode or the available text mode email clients? The thing is I want to get the most out of my hardware, so every opportunity to decrease RAM usage, CPU cycles and increase the speed and responsiveness is good. I do agree with you that there is much bloat in Gtk (especially 2.x). The thing is also it's not just ONE module. -- Jabber: heimdal@jabber.org