From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S261189AbUK2Hxp (ORCPT ); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:53:45 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S261231AbUK2Hxp (ORCPT ); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:53:45 -0500 Received: from mx2.redhat.com ([66.187.237.31]:14035 "EHLO mx2.redhat.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S261189AbUK2Hxn (ORCPT ); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:53:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:51:16 +0100 From: Arjan van de Ven To: Jeff Garzik Cc: Linus Torvalds , Paul Mackerras , Greg KH , David Woodhouse , Matthew Wilcox , David Howells , hch@infradead.org, aoliva@redhat.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, libc-hacker@sources.redhat.com, Mariusz Mazur Subject: Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ Message-ID: <20041129075116.GB29700@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <19865.1101395592@redhat.com> <20041125165433.GA2849@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> <1101406661.8191.9390.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> <20041127032403.GB10536@kroah.com> <16810.24893.747522.656073@cargo.ozlabs.ibm.com> <41AAA746.5000003@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41AAA746.5000003@pobox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Sun, Nov 28, 2004 at 11:36:22PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >In particular, any re-organization that breaks _existing_ uses is totally > >pointless. If you break existing uses, you might as well _not_ re- > >organize, since if you consider kernel headers to be purely kernel- > >internal (like they should be, but hey, reality trumps any wishes we might > >have), then the current organization is perfectly fine. > > > I don't think any drastic reorganization is even necessary. Well, we want things to be split. However a split doesn't mean a reorganisation as far as userspace visibility is concerned; the filenames can still be the same, and the typenames etc etc, you just do the kernel internal additions in a different dir/header Not breaking userland ever is a dream only, anytime we touch any header, some userland breaks (they use our spinlock code even!) > kernel-specific stuff stripped out. i.e. userland ABI only. Not sure > how many distros have started picking that up yet... I think Arjan said > Fedora Core had, or would. nope. Fedora has it's own set of cleaned up headers. Cleaned up in the sense that tehre's no #ifdef KERNEL anymore, no inlines (because that's a license trap, and in addition, all inlines were kernel specific anyway) and all structs which had spinlocks / semaphores and other kernel private structures in are removed as well (because they are clearly kernel internal).