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From: Rob Landley <rob@landley.net>
To: Andries Brouwer <aebr@win.tue.nl>
Cc: David Greaves <david@dgreaves.com>,
	Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@pobox.com>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	hch@infradead.org, aoliva@redhat.com,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Mariusz Mazur <mmazur@kernel.pl>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjanv@redhat.com>,
	andersen@codepoet.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 18:05:20 -0500
Message-ID: <200412051805.20980.rob@landley.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20041205155743.GA24304@pclin040.win.tue.nl>

(Trimming linus from cc: list because he asked.)

On Sunday 05 December 2004 10:57 am, Andries Brouwer wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 01:19:46PM +0000, David Greaves wrote:
> > Err,
> >
> > Isn't this WRONG.
>
> You did not read my mail, or you did not understand it.
>
> Please write the patch for losetup to avoid looking at kernel source.
> If you after writing think that it is cleaner than the present setup,
> submit it.

Avoiding looking at the kernel source for the darn structure would be 
relatively easy if the thing didn't vary by architecture.  I agree that 
hardwiring into userspace code #ifdefs for ARE_WE_ON_ALPHA is approximately 
as ugly as hardwiring in #ifdefs for IS_THIS_2.6.

Both are ugly.  This is why header files exist.  I still don't understand why 
we're not supposed to use 'em when the alternative is building incestuous 
knowledge about the kernel version we're compiling against into our 
application.

Bluntlly, I don't understand why "#include <linux/version.h>" and several 
#ifdefs is an improvement on "#include <linux/loop.h>" with no #ifdefs.

Rob

  reply index

Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-11-25 15:13 David Howells
2004-11-25 15:23 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-25 16:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 18:17   ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27  3:24     ` Greg KH
2004-11-28 23:37       ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29  1:28         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29  4:36           ` Jeff Garzik
2004-11-29  4:57             ` Al Viro
2004-11-29  5:27               ` Tim Hockin
2004-11-29  7:51             ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-05  0:49             ` Rob Landley
2004-12-05  2:26               ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 13:19                 ` David Greaves
2004-12-05 15:57                   ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 23:05                     ` Rob Landley [this message]
2004-12-06  9:56                       ` Andries Brouwer
2004-11-29  9:42           ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30  8:08             ` Alex Riesen
2004-11-30  8:57               ` Alex Riesen
2004-12-01 11:46             ` Ralf Baechle
2004-12-02  1:21               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-29  9:53           ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29  9:57             ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-29 10:01               ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-29 11:41           ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-29 17:09           ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-29 17:41             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29 22:44               ` Al Viro
2004-12-01 11:36                 ` Roman Zippel
     [not found]               ` <oract0thnj.fsf@livre.redhat.lsd.ic.unicamp.br>
2004-11-29 23:00                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30  0:45                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30  5:31                   ` Herbert Poetzl
2004-11-30  6:44                   ` bert hubert
2004-11-30 21:22                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 22:22                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:57                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:12                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 19:41                           ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-12-01 19:54                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-12-02  3:58                             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02  4:28                               ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-12-02  5:11                                 ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02 11:30                                   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-12-02 22:17                                     ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02  9:29                               ` Pekka Enberg
2004-12-02 15:35                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02 21:46                                   ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-30 15:35               ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 15:58                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 16:28                   ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 16:53                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 17:52                       ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 18:21                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:28                           ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 20:47                             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:33                               ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 22:44                                 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:03                                   ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 23:08                                     ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01  5:23                                       ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-01 10:52                                         ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01 18:08                                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 23:13                                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:36                                     ` Chris Friesen
2004-12-01  5:50                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 22:48                           ` Matt Mackall
2004-11-30 22:51                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-30 23:09                               ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-30 23:35                                 ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-01  0:23                                 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2004-11-30 22:55                             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:29                               ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-03  1:03                                 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-30 23:51                               ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 17:55                       ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 16:33                 ` David Howells
2004-11-30 16:57                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 15:33             ` David Howells
2004-11-30 15:51               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:47                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 20:56                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 21:30                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 21:39                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:33                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:25                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:34                         ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 22:51                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:50                             ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  0:10                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  0:18                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  8:10                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-01  0:24                                 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  0:37                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  0:47                                     ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  0:57                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  1:06                                         ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  1:23                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  6:48                                           ` BAIN
2004-12-01  2:02                               ` cdrom.h (was Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers...) Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:52                         ` [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:05                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:05                         ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 16:18               ` David Howells
2004-12-14  5:51           ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 15:49             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:50               ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 17:58                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 21:46                   ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 21:58                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 23:49                     ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-15  0:09                       ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-16  0:58                         ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-14 19:23                 ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-14 19:45                   ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-14 19:58                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 20:25                       ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 20:33                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:55               ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 17:59                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-27 20:39   ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-25 18:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 21:01   ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 22:35     ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:42       ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-27  0:13       ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27  0:26         ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27  0:30           ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27  0:38             ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:47     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-26 11:53       ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 16:12       ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-26 11:58   ` David Howells
2004-11-26 12:00     ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 14:19       ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 14:33         ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 12:10           ` Alexander Stohr
2004-11-27  3:46         ` Adam Heath
2004-11-30 12:18         ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-29 16:34     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 18:45 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 11:52 ` David Howells
2004-11-26 23:56 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27  1:27   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27  1:41     ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27  2:03       ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27  3:07 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-27  4:29 ` Tonnerre
2004-11-27  3:51   ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-27 16:47     ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 17:16       ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 22:53         ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-27 23:12           ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:27           ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 23:32             ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:56               ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28  7:13           ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 12:03             ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 12:19               ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:34                 ` Kevin Puetz
2004-11-28 12:28               ` Wichert Akkerman
2004-11-28 12:44                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:21             ` Jakub Jelinek
2004-11-28  7:20           ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-27  4:05   ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-27  4:30   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 21:03 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:11   ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 21:19     ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:49       ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 23:21         ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 13:24           ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-28 13:40             ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-29 11:08 ` David Howells
2004-11-29 20:01 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30  0:34   ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-30  0:51     ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-12-14  7:07   ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-27 19:43 Dan Kegel
2004-11-27 21:06 ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found] <34Xo6-2P0-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <35i9f-2vZ-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <35iLS-2Uo-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <35kb6-46Q-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-11-28  0:55       ` ak
2004-11-28 13:32         ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-30  1:43 Jean Tourrilhes
2004-11-30  4:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30  6:51   ` H. Peter Anvin

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