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From: Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de>
To: William Lee Irwin III <wli@debian.org>
Cc: Andries Brouwer <aebr@win.tue.nl>,
	Maciej Soltysiak <solt2@dns.toxicfilms.tv>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: starting with 2.7
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 23:15:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20050102221534.GG4183@stusta.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050102214211.GM29332@holomorphy.com>

On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 01:42:11PM -0800, William Lee Irwin III wrote:
> 
> This is not optimism. This is experience. Every ``stable'' kernel I've
> seen is a pile of incredibly stale code where vi'ing any file in it
> instantly reveals numerous months or years old bugs fixed upstream.
> What is gained in terms of reducing the risk of regressions is more
> than lost by the loss of critical examination and by a long longshot.

The main advantage with stable kernels in the good old days (tm) when 4 
and 6 were even numbers was that you knew if something didn't work, and 
upgrading to a new kernel inside this stable kernel series had a 
relatively low risk of new breakages. This meant one big migration every 
few years and relatively easy upgrades between stable series kernels.

Nowadays in 2.6, every new 2.6 kernel has several regressions compared 
to the previous one, and additionally obsolete but used code like 
ipchains and devfs is scheduled for removal making upgrades even harder 
for many users.

There's the point that most users should use distribution kernels, but 
consider e.g. that there are poor souls with new hardware not supported 
by the 3 years old 2.4.18 kernel in the stable part of your Debian 
distribution.

> -- wli

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed


  reply	other threads:[~2005-01-02 22:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 222+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-01-02 20:03 starting with 2.7 Maciej Soltysiak
2005-01-02 20:08 ` Emmanuel Fleury
2005-01-02 20:36 ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-02 21:01   ` Re[2]: " Maciej Soltysiak
2005-01-02 21:24   ` Andries Brouwer
2005-01-02 21:42     ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-02 22:15       ` Adrian Bunk [this message]
2005-01-02 22:49         ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-02 23:14           ` Jesper Juhl
2005-01-03  0:30           ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03  0:45             ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03  1:19               ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03  5:33                 ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-03 12:33                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 21:38                     ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-03 22:09                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 23:53                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04  5:06                       ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2005-01-04  5:29                         ` Sean
2005-01-05  8:42                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-05  9:13                           ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2005-01-04 13:17                       ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-03 13:24                   ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-03 13:47                     ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03 17:18                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 18:04                         ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03 18:41                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 18:36                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-01-03 18:59                           ` Russell King
2005-01-03 19:07                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 19:26                             ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-01-03 21:06                               ` Alan Cox
2005-01-04  0:24                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-01-04  3:12                               ` Thomas Graf
2005-01-04  5:33                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04 15:21                                   ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-04 15:58                                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 17:38                                       ` Bernd Eckenfels
2005-01-04 23:51                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-05  0:09                                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-05 18:30                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-05 18:56                                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-05 19:08                                           ` Chris Friesen
2005-01-04 15:34                                 ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-04 21:19                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-01-04 21:43                                     ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04 23:50                                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-01-05  5:37                                         ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-05  7:04                                           ` Gene Heskett
2005-01-05  8:33                                             ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2005-01-06 18:08                                       ` Paul Rolland
2005-01-06 21:08                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-06 22:50                                           ` Gene Heskett
2005-01-07 14:34                                           ` Paul Rolland
2005-01-05  0:00                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-05  0:33                                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-01-05 18:40                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 21:13                           ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-03 21:35                             ` Jesper Juhl
2005-01-04  0:02                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04  3:32                                 ` Gene Heskett
2005-01-05  9:27                             ` Andrew Morton
2005-01-05 10:57                               ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-01-06  3:15                                 ` Ed Tomlinson
2005-01-06 14:03                           ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2005-01-06 16:34                             ` Ramón Rey Vicente
2005-01-06 19:32                             ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-06 19:58                               ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-06 22:31                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-07  8:33                                 ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2005-01-06 20:48                             ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 19:28                         ` Jens Axboe
2005-01-03 22:39                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04  7:46                             ` Jens Axboe
2005-01-04 18:34                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 21:03                         ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-03 23:42                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04 17:31                             ` Rahul Karnik
2005-01-04 18:44                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04 21:04                         ` Pavel Machek
2005-01-04 21:28                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04 21:51                             ` APM vs. ACPI, janitor wanted? [was Re: starting with 2.7] Pavel Machek
2005-01-04 12:57                       ` starting with 2.7 William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 15:08                         ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-04 15:34                           ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 16:53                             ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-04 19:57                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 20:30                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04 20:34                                 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-04 20:55                                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 21:23                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04 22:01                                 ` Andries Brouwer
2005-01-04 21:01                               ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-01-06  9:45                                 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2005-01-06 15:50                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-01-06 16:59                                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-06 14:38                                     ` Marcelo Tosatti
2005-01-04 20:17                         ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-05  0:02                           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-05  5:49                             ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04  2:06                     ` Roman Zippel
2005-01-04  2:36                       ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2005-01-03 12:52               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 15:52             ` Alan Cox
2005-01-03 17:15               ` Jeff V. Merkey
2005-01-02 23:14         ` Diego Calleja
2005-01-02 23:21         ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2005-01-03  9:57           ` Reviving the concept of a stable series (was Re: starting with 2.7) L. A. Walsh
2005-01-03 12:17             ` Robert W. Fuller
2005-01-03 13:58               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03 14:24             ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-04  4:56               ` David Lang
2005-01-04 14:52                 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-04  7:00               ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-01-09  0:13               ` Reviving the concept of a stable series L A Walsh
2005-01-10 13:44                 ` Adam Sampson
2005-01-10 16:50                   ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-10 19:24                   ` Alan Cox
2005-01-10 20:50                     ` jmerkey
2005-01-03 22:20             ` Reviving the concept of a stable series (was Re: starting with 2.7) Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04 13:08               ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 18:20                 ` Dave Jones
2005-01-06 15:31                   ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-01-06 18:23                   ` [PATCH] zap the ACPI shutdown bug (was Re: Reviving the concept of a stable series) Barry K. Nathan
2005-01-06 19:07                     ` Dave Jones
2005-01-06 21:19                     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03  0:19         ` starting with 2.7 William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03  0:38           ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03  0:49             ` Adam Mercer
2005-01-03  1:20               ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 12:13               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-01-03  1:21             ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 22:26             ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 15:20         ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-03 15:29           ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03 15:37             ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 17:39               ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-03 20:59                 ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-03 21:47                   ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-03 21:48                     ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-03 22:03                       ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-03 22:10                         ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-03 22:14                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-03 23:41                           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04  5:46                           ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04  6:36                             ` Al Viro
2005-01-04 10:23                               ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04 12:36                                 ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-04 12:59                                   ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04 20:09                                     ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04 20:17                                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-05  6:20                                       ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2005-01-05 11:30                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-04 20:24                                     ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-05 13:31                                 ` Helge Hafting
2005-01-05 19:16                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-05 21:19                                   ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04  9:17                         ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-01-04 13:27                         ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-04 14:27                           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04 15:31                             ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-04 16:51                               ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04 20:58                             ` Horst von Brand
2005-01-04 23:07                               ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-04 23:18                                 ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-04 22:04                             ` Alan Cox
2005-01-03 22:01                     ` Sean
2005-01-04  5:44                   ` Willy Tarreau
2005-01-04 13:11                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 23:21                 ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 18:18             ` Wakko Warner
2005-01-03 23:06           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-03 15:18     ` Rik van Riel
2005-01-03 15:34       ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-03 15:46         ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-03 15:59         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-03 23:34           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-04  7:42             ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-04 13:14               ` William Lee Irwin III
2005-01-04 17:47           ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-04 20:18             ` David Lang
2005-01-04 23:03               ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2005-01-05  7:39                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-01-06 19:35               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-01-06 23:33                 ` Daniel Gryniewicz
2005-01-07  1:51                 ` David Lang
2005-01-07  5:48                   ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-03 22:53       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-01-06  3:52       ` Ian Kent
2005-01-06 20:02 ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-06 21:29   ` Alan Cox
2005-01-07  0:06     ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-07 16:34     ` M. Edward Borasky
2005-01-07 17:25       ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-09  2:31         ` M. Edward Borasky
2005-01-09  3:01           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-01-09  3:08           ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-09 23:02             ` Alan Cox
2005-01-10  0:30               ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-10  1:26                 ` Indrek Kruusa
2005-01-10  1:28                 ` Dave Airlie
2005-01-10  2:16                   ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-10  4:51                   ` Gene Heskett
2005-01-10 18:27                   ` Alan Cox
2005-01-10 20:11                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-01-10 19:55                       ` Alan Cox
2005-01-10 21:08                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-01-11 16:10                           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-10 22:19                     ` Dave Airlie
2005-01-11  0:54                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-01-11 16:10                       ` Alan Cox
2005-01-04 16:07 Indrek Kruusa
2005-01-07 11:07 Nicolas Mailhot
2005-01-07 11:15 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 11:17   ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-01-07 17:34     ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-08 15:45       ` Alan Cox
2005-01-11  7:17         ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-11 16:10           ` Alan Cox
2005-01-11 17:36             ` John Richard Moser
2005-01-11 19:59               ` Bernd Eckenfels
2005-01-10 21:32   ` Bill Davidsen

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