linux-kernel.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Tom Lord <lord@emf.net>
To: torvalds@osdl.org
Cc: mpm@selenic.com, seanlkml@sympatico.ca,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Mercurial 0.4b vs git patchbomb benchmark
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200504291544.IAA23584@emf.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0504290728090.18901@ppc970.osdl.org> (message from Linus Torvalds on Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:34:15 -0700 (PDT))



  > ie does mercurial do distributed merges, which git was designed for, and 
  > does mercurial notice single-bit errors in a reasonably secure manner, or 
  > can people just mess with history willy-nilly?

  > For the latter, the cryptographic nature of sha1 is an added bonus - the
  > _big_ issue is that it is a good hash, and an _exteremely_ effective CRC
  > of the data. You can't mess up an archive and lie about it later.

On the other hand, you're asking people to sign whole trees and not just at
first-import time but also for every change.

That's an impedence mismatch and undermines the security features of the
approach you're taking and here is why:

I shouldn't sign anything I haven't reviewed pretty carefully.  For
the kernel and in many other situations, it is too expensive to review
the whole tree.  Thus, the thing actually signed and the thing meant
by the signature are not equal.  I sign a tree, in this system,
because I think the right diffs and only the right diffs have been
applied to it.   My signature is intended to mean, though, that I vouche
for the *diffs*, not the tree.

If I've changed five files, I should be signing a statement of:

	1) my belief about the identity of the immediate ancestor tree
	2) a robust summary of my changes, sufficient to recreate my
	   new tree given a faithful copy of the ancestor

That's a short enough amount of data that a human can really review it
and thus it makes the signatures much more meaningful.

Probably doesn't matter much other than in cases where a mainline
is undergoing massive batch-patching based mostly on a web of trust.

But in that case --- someone or something generates purported diffs of
a tree; someone or something else scans those diffs and decides they
look good ---- and then on this basis, something distinct from
directly using those diffs occurs.  The diffs were used to vette the
change; the signature asserts that a certain tree is a faithful result
of applying those diffs.  Nothing checks that second assertion -- it's
taken on faith.

-t


  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-04-29 15:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-04-26  0:41 Mercurial 0.3 vs git benchmarks Matt Mackall
2005-04-26  1:49 ` Daniel Phillips
2005-04-26  2:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26  2:30   ` Mike Taht
2005-04-26  3:04     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26  4:00       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26 11:13         ` Chris Mason
2005-04-26 15:09           ` Magnus Damm
2005-04-26 15:38             ` Chris Mason
2005-04-26 16:23               ` Magnus Damm
2005-04-26 18:18                 ` Chris Mason
2005-04-26 20:56                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-04-26 21:07                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26 22:50                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-04-26 22:56                     ` Andrew Morton
2005-04-26 23:43                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-04-27 15:01                         ` Florian Weimer
2005-04-27 15:13                           ` Thomas Glanzmann
2005-04-27 18:54                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-04-27 19:01                               ` Thomas Glanzmann
2005-04-27 19:57                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-04-27 20:06                                   ` Thomas Glanzmann
2005-04-27 20:35                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-04-27 20:39                                   ` Thomas Glanzmann
2005-04-27 20:47                                   ` Florian Weimer
2005-04-27 20:55                                 ` Florian Weimer
2005-04-27 21:04                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-04-27 21:06                                     ` Florian Weimer
2005-04-27 21:32                                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-04-27 19:55                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-04-27  6:34                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-04-27 21:10                     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-04-27 21:39                       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26 16:42           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26 17:39             ` Chris Mason
2005-04-26 19:52               ` Chris Mason
2005-04-26 18:15         ` H. Peter Anvin
2005-04-26 20:30           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-04-26 16:11       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-04-26  4:01   ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-26  4:20     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-26  4:09   ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-04-26  4:22     ` Andreas Gal
2005-04-26  4:22     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29  6:01   ` Mercurial 0.4b vs git patchbomb benchmark Matt Mackall
2005-04-29  6:40     ` Sean
2005-04-29  7:40       ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-29  8:40         ` Sean
2005-04-29 14:34         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29 15:18           ` Morten Welinder
2005-04-29 16:52             ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-02 16:10               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-02 19:02                 ` Sean
2005-05-02 22:02                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-02 22:30                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-02 22:49                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-03  0:00                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-03  2:48                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-03  3:29                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-03  4:18                             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-03  4:24                         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-03  4:27                           ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-03  8:45                           ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-04-29 15:44           ` Tom Lord [this message]
2005-04-29 15:58             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29 17:34               ` Tom Lord
2005-04-29 17:56                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29 18:08                   ` Tom Lord
2005-04-29 18:33                     ` Sean
2005-04-29 18:54                       ` Tom Lord
2005-04-29 19:13                         ` Sean
2005-05-02 16:15                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-04-29 16:37           ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-29 17:09             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29 19:12               ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-29 19:50                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29 20:23                   ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-29 20:49                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-04-29 21:20                       ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-29 16:46           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-04-29 20:19       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-04-29 22:30         ` Olivier Galibert
2005-04-29 22:47           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-04-29 20:30     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-04-29 20:39       ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-30  2:52         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-04-30 15:20           ` Matt Mackall
2005-04-30 16:37             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-02 15:49           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-02 16:14             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-03 17:40               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-04  2:10                 ` Mercurial 0.4b vs git patchbomb benchmark (/usr/bin/env again) David A. Wheeler
2005-05-02 16:17             ` Mercurial 0.4b vs git patchbomb benchmark Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-02 16:31             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-02 17:18               ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2005-05-02 17:32                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-02 20:54                 ` Sam Ravnborg
2005-05-02 17:20               ` Ryan Anderson
2005-05-02 17:31                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-02 21:17               ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-03 17:43               ` Bill Davidsen
     [not found] <3YQn9-8qX-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <3ZLEF-56n-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <3ZM7L-5ot-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <3ZN3P-69A-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <3ZNdz-6gK-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-05-03  1:16         ` Bodo Eggert <harvested.in.lkml@posting.7eggert.dyndns.org>
2005-05-03  1:29           ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-03 16:22             ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-03 17:14               ` Rene Scharfe
2005-05-04 17:51                 ` Bill Davidsen

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=200504291544.IAA23584@emf.net \
    --to=lord@emf.net \
    --cc=git@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mpm@selenic.com \
    --cc=seanlkml@sympatico.ca \
    --cc=torvalds@osdl.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).