From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S964830AbWBCBSl (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:18:41 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S964831AbWBCBSl (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:18:41 -0500 Received: from dspnet.fr.eu.org ([213.186.44.138]:23564 "EHLO dspnet.fr.eu.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S964830AbWBCBSk (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:18:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 02:18:39 +0100 From: Olivier Galibert To: Pavel Machek Cc: Dave Jones , Nigel Cunningham , Pekka Enberg , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [ 00/10] [Suspend2] Modules support. Message-ID: <20060203011839.GA58691@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Mail-Followup-To: Olivier Galibert , Pavel Machek , Dave Jones , Nigel Cunningham , Pekka Enberg , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <20060201113710.6320.68289.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <200602022131.59928.nigel@suspend2.net> <84144f020602020344p228e20b2x34226f341c296578@mail.gmail.com> <200602022228.20032.nigel@suspend2.net> <20060202154319.GA96923@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <20060202202527.GC2264@elf.ucw.cz> <20060202203155.GE11831@redhat.com> <20060202205148.GE2264@elf.ucw.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060202205148.GE2264@elf.ucw.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 09:51:48PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote: > Well, Olivier said I'm turning kernel into Hurd. You're far from the only one. There is currently a real fad into putting as many things as possible (or not) in userspace without seemingly thinking about things like security, long term maintainability, usability or even compatiblity between kernel versions and userspace versions. > So he instead > advocates merging 10 000 lines of code (+7500, contains new > compression algorithm and new plugin architecture). I'd like to add > interface to userland (+300) and remove swap writing (long term, > -1000). I don't actually advocate suspend2. I indeed have not looked at the patches at that point. I do find it extremely annoying that instead of trying to make what exists reliable, for instance what are the rules irq grabbing/release at that point, and adding infrastructure for what's missing for having real reliability, f.i. communication with fb/drm to handle the screen power switch, you decide to go and move things into userspace which is going to increase the reliability problems immensely. I don't even want to think about the interactions between freezing the userspace memory pages and running some processes which may malloc/mmap at the same time. OG.