From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754032AbdDEIGA (ORCPT ); Wed, 5 Apr 2017 04:06:00 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:53009 "EHLO mx2.suse.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752862AbdDEIF6 (ORCPT ); Wed, 5 Apr 2017 04:05:58 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 10:05:51 +0200 From: Jan Kara To: NeilBrown Cc: "J. Bruce Fields" , Jeff Layton , Jan Kara , Christoph Hellwig , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 00/30] fs: inode->i_version rework and optimization Message-ID: <20170405080551.GC8899@quack2.suse.cz> References: <20170321183006.GD17872@fieldses.org> <1490122013.2593.1.camel@redhat.com> <20170329111507.GA18467@quack2.suse.cz> <1490810071.2678.6.camel@redhat.com> <20170330064724.GA21542@quack2.suse.cz> <1490872308.2694.1.camel@redhat.com> <20170330161231.GA9824@fieldses.org> <1490898932.2667.1.camel@redhat.com> <20170404183138.GC14303@fieldses.org> <878tnfiq7v.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878tnfiq7v.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed 05-04-17 11:43:32, NeilBrown wrote: > On Tue, Apr 04 2017, J. Bruce Fields wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 02:35:32PM -0400, Jeff Layton wrote: > >> On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 12:12 -0400, J. Bruce Fields wrote: > >> > On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 07:11:48AM -0400, Jeff Layton wrote: > >> > > On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 08:47 +0200, Jan Kara wrote: > >> > > > Because if above is acceptable we could make reported i_version to be a sum > >> > > > of "superblock crash counter" and "inode i_version". We increment > >> > > > "superblock crash counter" whenever we detect unclean filesystem shutdown. > >> > > > That way after a crash we are guaranteed each inode will report new > >> > > > i_version (the sum would probably have to look like "superblock crash > >> > > > counter" * 65536 + "inode i_version" so that we avoid reusing possible > >> > > > i_version numbers we gave away but did not write to disk but still...). > >> > > > Thoughts? > >> > > >> > How hard is this for filesystems to support? Do they need an on-disk > >> > format change to keep track of the crash counter? Maybe not, maybe the > >> > high bits of the i_version counters are all they need. > >> > > >> > >> Yeah, I imagine we'd need a on-disk change for this unless there's > >> something already present that we could use in place of a crash counter. > > > > We could consider using the current time instead. So, put the current > > time (or time of last boot, or this inode's ctime, or something) in the > > high bits of the change attribute, and keep the low bits as a counter. > > This is a very different proposal. > I don't think Jan was suggesting that the i_version be split into two > bit fields, one the change-counter and one the crash-counter. > Rather, the crash-counter was multiplied by a large-number and added to > the change-counter with the expectation that while not ever > change-counter landed on disk, at least 1 in every large-number would. > So after each crash we effectively add large-number to the > change-counter, and can be sure that number hasn't been used already. Yes, that was my thinking. > To store the crash-counter in each inode (which does appeal) you would > need to be able to remove it before adding the new crash counter, and > that requires bit-fields. Maybe there are enough bits. Furthermore you'd have a potential problem that you need to change i_version on disk just because you are reading after a crash and such changes tend to be problematic (think of read-only mounts and stuff like that). > If you want to ensure read-only files can remain cached over a crash, > then you would have to mark a file in some way on stable storage > *before* allowing any change. > e.g. you could use the lsb. Odd i_versions might have been changed > recently and crash-count*large-number needs to be added. > Even i_versions have not been changed recently and nothing need be > added. > > If you want to change a file with an even i_version, you subtract > crash-count*large-number > to the i_version, then set lsb. This is written to stable storage before > the change. > > If a file has not been changed for a while, you can add > crash-count*large-number > and clear lsb. > > The lsb of the i_version would be for internal use only. It would not > be visible outside the filesystem. > > It feels a bit clunky, but I think it would work and is the best > combination of Jan's idea and your requirement. > The biggest cost would be switching to 'odd' before an changes, and the > unknown is when does it make sense to switch to 'even'. Well, there is also a problem that you would need to somehow remember with which 'crash count' the i_version has been previously reported as that is not stored on disk with my scheme. So I don't think we can easily use your scheme. So the options we have are: 1) Keep i_version as is, make clients also check for i_ctime. Pro: No on-disk format changes. Cons: After a crash, i_version can go backwards (but when file changes i_version, i_ctime pair should be still different) or not, data can be old or not. 2) Fsync when reporting i_version. Pro: No on-disk format changes, strong consistency of i_version and data. Cons: Difficult to implement for filesystems due to locking constrains. High performance overhead or i_version reporting. 3) Some variant of crash counter. Pro: i_version cannot go backwards. Cons: Requires on-disk format changes. After a crash data can be old (however i_version increased). Honza -- Jan Kara SUSE Labs, CR