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From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@kernel.org,
	jiangshanlai@gmail.com, dipankar@in.ibm.com,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com,
	josh@joshtriplett.org, tglx@linutronix.de, rostedt@goodmis.org,
	dhowells@redhat.com, edumazet@google.com, fweisbec@gmail.com,
	oleg@redhat.com, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH tip/core/rcu 21/21] drivers/vhost: Remove now-redundant read_barrier_depends()
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 15:39:55 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171205233955.GW7829@linux.vnet.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171206000541-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 12:09:36AM +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 10:57:00PM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 11:24:49PM +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > READ_ONCE is really all over the place (some code literally replaced all
> > > memory accesses with READ/WRITE ONCE).
> > 
> > Yeah, so?
> 
> Oh my point was I can't just look for READ_ONCE and go
> *that's the pair*. there are too many of these.
> At Paul's suggestion I will document the pairing *this read once has a
> barrier that is paired with that barrier*.
> 
> > Complain to the compiler people for forcing us into that.
> 
> In some cases when you end up with all accesses
> going through read/write once volatile just might better.

That is in fact what the jiffies counter does.  But you lose READ_ONCE()'s
automatic handling of DEC Alpha when you take that approach.

> > > Would an API like WRITE_POINTER()/smp_store_pointer make sense,
> > > and READ_POINTER for symmetry?
> > 
> > No, the whole point of the exercise was to get away from the fact that
> > dependent loads are special.
> 
> It's a pity that dependent stores are still special.

We can make READ_ONCE() not be special at zero cost on non-Alpha
systems, but both smp_wmb() and smp_store_release() are decidedly
not free of added overhead.

							Thanx, Paul

  reply	other threads:[~2017-12-05 23:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-12-01 19:50 [PATCH tip/core/rcu 0/21] De-emphasize {smp_,}read_barrier_depends Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:50 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 01/21] doc: READ_ONCE() now implies smp_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:50 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 02/21] mn10300: READ_ONCE() now implies smp_read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:50 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 03/21] drivers/net/ethernet/qlogic/qed: Fix __qed_spq_block() ordering Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:50 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 04/21] fs/dcache: Use release-acquire for name/length update Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 05/21] percpu: READ_ONCE() now implies smp_read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 06/21] rcu: Adjust read-side accessor comments for READ_ONCE() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 07/21] rtnetlink: Update now-misleading smp_read_barrier_depends() comment Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 08/21] seqlock: Remove now-redundant smp_read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 09/21] uprobes: " Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 10/21] locking: Remove smp_read_barrier_depends() from queued_spin_lock_slowpath() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 11/21] tracepoint: Remove smp_read_barrier_depends() from comment Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 12/21] lib/assoc_array: Remove smp_read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 13/21] mm/ksm: Remove now-redundant smp_read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 14/21] netfilter: " Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 15/21] keyring: " Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-04  0:59   ` James Morris
2017-12-04 18:54     ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 16/21] drivers/infiniband: " Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-02  0:11   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-12-02  1:08     ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-05 15:08       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2017-12-05 20:06         ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 17/21] doc: De-emphasize smp_read_barrier_depends Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 18/21] genetlink: Remove smp_read_barrier_depends() from comment Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 19/21] netlink: " Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 20/21] checkpatch: Add warnings for {smp_,}read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-01 20:14   ` Joe Perches
2017-12-01 21:44     ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-02  4:45       ` Joe Perches
2017-12-04 19:06         ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-04 19:12           ` Joe Perches
2017-12-01 19:51 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 21/21] drivers/vhost: Remove now-redundant read_barrier_depends() Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-05 18:31   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 18:39     ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-05 18:57       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 19:17         ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-05 19:24           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 19:33             ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-05 19:51               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 19:57                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-05 20:28                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 21:17                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-05 21:42                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 20:08                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-05 21:24                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 21:36                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-05 21:43                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 22:02                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-05 22:09                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-05 21:57                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-05 22:09                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2017-12-05 23:39                         ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2017-12-05 19:55             ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-04 15:38 ` [PATCH tip/core/rcu 01/21] doc: READ_ONCE() now implies smp_barrier_depends() David Howells
2017-12-04 18:52   ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-04 21:54     ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-04 22:15       ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-12-04 22:39     ` David Howells
2017-12-04 22:57       ` Peter Zijlstra

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