From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7E2C28CF6 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 22:41:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FE820862 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 22:41:28 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 69FE820862 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732320AbeHBA32 (ORCPT ); Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:29:28 -0400 Received: from mx3-rdu2.redhat.com ([66.187.233.73]:50500 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1729647AbeHBA31 (ORCPT ); Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:29:27 -0400 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCAFB7262D; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 22:41:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from redhat.com (ovpn-121-8.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.121.8]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E02C71006EB5; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 22:41:20 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 01:41:20 +0300 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Will Deacon Cc: Christoph Hellwig , Benjamin Herrenschmidt , Anshuman Khandual , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, aik@ozlabs.ru, robh@kernel.org, joe@perches.com, elfring@users.sourceforge.net, david@gibson.dropbear.id.au, jasowang@redhat.com, mpe@ellerman.id.au, linuxram@us.ibm.com, haren@linux.vnet.ibm.com, paulus@samba.org, srikar@linux.vnet.ibm.com, robin.murphy@arm.com, jean-philippe.brucker@arm.com, marc.zyngier@arm.com Subject: Re: [RFC 0/4] Virtio uses DMA API for all devices Message-ID: <20180802014028-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20180727095804.GA25592@arm.com> <20180730093414.GD26245@infradead.org> <20180730125100-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20180730111802.GA9830@infradead.org> <20180730155633-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20180731173052.GA17153@infradead.org> <3d6e81511571260de1c8047aaffa8ac4df093d2e.camel@kernel.crashing.org> <20180801081637.GA14438@arm.com> <20180801083639.GF26378@infradead.org> <20180801090535.GB14438@arm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180801090535.GB14438@arm.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.3 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.2]); Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:41:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.2]); Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:41:24 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'10.11.54.3' DOMAIN:'int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com' HELO:'smtp.corp.redhat.com' FROM:'mst@redhat.com' RCPT:'' Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Aug 01, 2018 at 10:05:35AM +0100, Will Deacon wrote: > Hi Christoph, > > On Wed, Aug 01, 2018 at 01:36:39AM -0700, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 01, 2018 at 09:16:38AM +0100, Will Deacon wrote: > > > On arm/arm64, the problem we have is that legacy virtio devices on the MMIO > > > transport (so definitely not PCI) have historically been advertised by qemu > > > as not being cache coherent, but because the virtio core has bypassed DMA > > > ops then everything has happened to work. If we blindly enable the arch DMA > > > ops, > > > > No one is suggesting that as far as I can tell. > > Apologies: it's me that wants the DMA ops enabled to handle legacy devices > behind an IOMMU, but see below. > > > > we'll plumb in the non-coherent ops and start getting data corruption, > > > so we do need a way to quirk virtio as being "always coherent" if we want to > > > use the DMA ops (which we do, because our emulation platforms have an IOMMU > > > for all virtio devices). > > > > From all that I've gather so far: no you do not want that. We really > > need to figure out virtio "dma" interacts with the host / device. > > > > If you look at the current iommu spec it does talk of physical address > > with a little careveout for VIRTIO_F_IOMMU_PLATFORM. > > That's true, although that doesn't exist in the legacy virtio spec, and we > have an existing emulation platform which puts legacy virtio devices behind > an IOMMU. Currently, Linux is unable to boot on this platform unless the > IOMMU is configured as bypass. If we can use the coherent IOMMU DMA ops, > then it works perfectly. > > > So between that and our discussion in this thread and its previous > > iterations I think we need to stick to the current always physical, > > bypass system dma ops mode of virtio operation as the default. > > As above -- that means we hang during boot because we get stuck trying to > bring up a virtio-block device whose DMA is aborted by the IOMMU. The easy > answer is "just upgrade to latest virtio and advertise the presence of the > IOMMU". I'm pushing for that in future platforms, but it seems a shame not > to support the current platform, especially given that other systems do have > hacks in mainline to get virtio working. > > > We just need to figure out how to deal with devices that deviate > > from the default. One things is that VIRTIO_F_IOMMU_PLATFORM really > > should become VIRTIO_F_PLATFORM_DMA to cover the cases of non-iommu > > dma tweaks (offsets, cache flushing), which seems well in spirit of > > the original design. The other issue is VIRTIO_F_IO_BARRIER > > which is very vaguely defined, and which needs a better definition. > > And last but not least we'll need some text explaining the challenges > > of hardware devices - I think VIRTIO_F_PLATFORM_DMA + VIRTIO_F_IO_BARRIER > > is what would basically cover them, but a good description including > > an explanation of why these matter. > > I agree that this makes sense for future revisions of virtio (or perhaps > it can just be a clarification to virtio 1.0), but we're still left in the > dark with legacy devices and it would be nice to have them work on the > systems which currently exist, even if it's a legacy-only hack in the arch > code. > > Will Myself I'm sympathetic to this use-case and I see more uses to this than just legacy support. But more work is required IMHO. Will post tomorrow though - it's late here ... -- MST