From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0954ECE560 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 17:19:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE750208D9 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 17:19:24 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org AE750208D9 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=arm.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1733196AbeIXXWc (ORCPT ); Mon, 24 Sep 2018 19:22:32 -0400 Received: from usa-sjc-mx-foss1.foss.arm.com ([217.140.101.70]:39070 "EHLO foss.arm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1729008AbeIXXWb (ORCPT ); Mon, 24 Sep 2018 19:22:31 -0400 Received: from usa-sjc-imap-foss1.foss.arm.com (unknown [10.72.51.249]) by usa-sjc-mx-foss1.foss.arm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E16680D; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e110439-lin (e110439-lin.Emea.Arm.com [10.4.12.126]) by usa-sjc-imap-foss1.foss.arm.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BF6683F5BD; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 18:19:17 +0100 From: Patrick Bellasi To: Peter Zijlstra Cc: Juri Lelli , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, Ingo Molnar , Tejun Heo , "Rafael J . Wysocki" , Viresh Kumar , Vincent Guittot , Paul Turner , Quentin Perret , Dietmar Eggemann , Morten Rasmussen , Todd Kjos , Joel Fernandes , Steve Muckle , Suren Baghdasaryan Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 14/16] sched/core: uclamp: request CAP_SYS_ADMIN by default Message-ID: <20180924171917.GU1413@e110439-lin> References: <20180828135324.21976-15-patrick.bellasi@arm.com> <20180904134748.GA4974@localhost.localdomain> <20180906144053.GD25636@e110439-lin> <20180914111003.GC24082@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20180914140732.GR1413@e110439-lin> <20180914142813.GM24124@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20180917122723.GS1413@e110439-lin> <20180921091308.GD24082@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20180924151400.GT1413@e110439-lin> <20180924162640.GB7060@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180924162640.GB7060@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 24-Sep 18:26, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 04:14:00PM +0100, Patrick Bellasi wrote: > > > ... still it's difficult to give a precise definition of knee point, > > unless you know about platforms which have a sharp change in energy > > efficiency. > > > > The only cases we know about are those where: > > > > A) multiple frequencies uses the same voltage, e.g. > > On a side note, the following plots represents ee^-1, or eventually, the P on the y axise... my bad.... but you got the meaning anyway ;) > > > > ^ * > > | Energy O > > | efficiency O+ > > | O | > > | O* | > > | O** | > > | O** O*** | > > | + O** O**** | > > | | O** O***** | > > | | O** | > > | | + | > > | | Same V | Increasing V | > > +---+----------+----------------------+-----------> > > | | | Frequency > > L M H > > > > B) there is a big frequency gap between low frequency OPPs and high > > frequency OPPs, e.g. > > > > O > > ^ **+ > > | Energy ** | > > | efficiency ** | > > | ** | > > | ** | > > | ** | > > | ** | > > | ** | > > | O** | > > | O******+ | > > |O******* | | > > | | | > > ++--------------+------------------+------> > > | | | Frequency > > L M H > > > > > > In case A, all the OPPs left of M are dominated by M in terms > > of energy efficiency and normally they should be never used. > > Unless you are under thermal constraints and you still want to keep > > your code running even if at a lower rate and energy efficiency. > > At this point, however, you already invalidated all the OPPs right of > > M and, on the remaining, you still struggle do define the knee point. > > > > In case B... I'm wondering it such a conf even makes sense ;) > > Is there really some platform out there with such a "non homogeneously > > distributed" set of available frequencies ? > > Well, the curve is a second or third order polynomial (when V~f -> fV^2 > -> f^3), so it shoots up at some point. There's not really anything you > can do about that. But if you're willing to put in active cooling and > lots of energy, you can make it go fast :-) Sure... until you don't melt the silicon you can push the frequency. However, if you are going for such aggressive active cooling, perhaps your interest for energy efficiency it's already a very low priority goal. > Therefore I was thinking: > > > Maybe we can define a threshold > > for a "EE derivative ratio", but it will still be quite arbitrary. > > Because up until de/df=.5 we gain more performance than we loose ee. You mean up until de < df ? IOW... the threshold should be de == df => 45deg tangent ? > But I might not have appreciated the fact that when we work with > imaginary cost units that skews the .5. The main skew IMO comes from the fact the energy efficiency "tipping point" is very much application / user specific... and it can also change depending on the usage scenario for the same user and platform. -- #include Patrick Bellasi